Bob Eden · 55 min
Born premature into a volatile household, Bob Eden spent decades breaking cycles of abuse, depression, and disconnection, discovering that music, storytelling, and radical self-sovereignty were the only medicines he ever truly needed.
Hear this story
Bob Eden grew up in post-war England with a volatile mother and an absent father. Violence was random, unpredictable, and came whether he was good or bad. By age four, he had already learned to distrust his own knowing. When his mother asked him to wear her chosen blue shirt instead of the red one he preferred, he obeyed. That small surrender became a lifelong pattern of handing his authority over to someone else.
Decades later, living in Fremantle on antidepressants, Bob wrote a letter to his mother asking her to share her own story. She sent back the story of a German woman born between the wars, shaped by loss and violence herself. Reading it, something shifted. Bob moved from hate through understanding back to love, and in doing so broke a multi-generational cycle of harm. His mother died three days after their first real conversation as mother and son. A decade later, Bob received a message from her through a spiritual medium saying she was doing the same healing work with her own parents.
On a boat in Pioneer Bay in 2008, unable to breathe and facing what felt like death, Bob made a choice to trust his body and his intuition. He threw himself into the bay and chose in that moment to let his body do what it needed. He came up breathing. That night became his rite of passage into reclaiming belief in himself.
Now, Bob lives by two principles: Keep It Simple, Sovereign, and the SUE principle, meaning all are sovereign, unique, and equal. His mission is to eradicate suicide by helping people sit around a campfire and share their truth. He believes feelings are healings, and that simply by sharing our stories we help each other heal.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses suicide & self-harm prevention, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au
“I am master and commander of this life I do create and I take full responsibility for it.”
“By sharing our stories, I was actually able to break the multigenerational cycle of abuse.”
“Feelings are healings. All you have to do is sit around and share your truth.”
The hero, today
Bob learned from writing to his mother that by sharing his own story and listening to hers, he could move from hate through understanding back to love, and in doing so broke a multi-generational cycle of harm in his family. When Bob was four and chose to wear his mother's blue shirt instead of trusting his preference for the red one, he made a habit of bowing to someone else's authority over his own knowing, a pattern he spent decades unlearning. Bob bet his life on trusting his intuition on the night he threw himself into Pioneer Bay, unable to breathe, and chose in that moment to let his body do what it needed to do; that became his rite of passage into reclaiming belief in himself. Bob describes his depression as his body telling him to wake up and stop living his programming; after twenty years on antidepressants, he came off them on his boat and used that time to question everything he had been told was true. For Bob, the measure of what works in his life, whether in music, in healing, or in facing illness, is whether it feels uplifting and nurturing to him, and he guides himself by that energy rather than by what anyone else tells him should be true. Bob's mission now is to eradicate suicide by helping people sit around a campfire and share their truth, because he believes that feelings are healings and that simply by sharing our stories we help each other heal.
Yes. Bob Eden is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Bob learned from writing to his mother that by sharing his own story and listening to hers, he could move from hate through understanding back to love, and in doing so broke a multi-generational cycle of harm in his family.
When Bob was four and chose to wear his mother's blue shirt instead of trusting his preference for the red one, he made a habit of bowing to someone else's authority over his own knowing, a pattern he spent decades unlearning.
Bob bet his life on trusting his intuition on the night he threw himself into Pioneer Bay, unable to breathe, and chose in that moment to let his body do what it needed to do; that became his rite of passage into reclaiming belief in himself.
John Milham (Host) · 00:01
This limited Kintsugi Heroes podcast series was made possible through grant funding provided by the New South Wales Department of Communities and Justice Connecting Seniors grant program. If you'd like to find out more about Kintsugi Heroes, head over to Kintsugiheroes.com.au.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 00:24
Welcome back to our Kintsugi Heroes special series Connecting Seniors. This year we are continuing to share the experiences of ageing Australians to create connections across our communities. In this episode of Connecting Seniors, we're revisiting a conversation from Kintsugi Heroes with a senior who is making an impact on the world by connecting with his community.
John Milham (Host) · 00:50
This week we hear John Millum's conversation with Bob Eden. Enjoy this episode.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 01:11
So, uh, Bob Eden, welcome to Katsugi Heroes, mate. Stories that matter. And, uh, today it's your story.
John Milham (Host) · 01:18
Oh, fabulous, fabulous.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 01:22
So, mate, uh, you know, we, we've, uh, we've spent some time, uh, you know, in the past having chatting about your story. I reckon I know a fraction of the things that you've done. You keep coming out with new things. So to make sure I don't miss too much, mate, I know that you're a craftsman, you're a sailor, you've— what else are you, mate? Can you take us back to little Bob and perhaps give us a hint of how how you got to where you are now.
More stories
This site is part of Kintsugi Heroes. Visit the main site for the full podcast. If any of these stories hit close to home, support is out there, you don't have to sit with it alone.
Read how we handle these stories ↗
Kintsugi Heroes · Registered Australian not-for-profit · kintsugiheroes.com.au ↗
Bob describes his depression as his body telling him to wake up and stop living his programming; after twenty years on antidepressants, he came off them on his boat and used that time to question everything he had been told was true.
This conversation includes welcome to connecting seniors, master and commander of his own life, a childhood shaped by absence and violence, the letter that changed everything, understanding his mother's story and a message from his mother, years later.
John Milham (Host) · 01:58
Yeah, and thank you for giving me so much leeway. So before I go back there, I just like to set the scene and, and tell you who or what I am today, how I am today. And for me, I am Master and Commander of this life I do create and will take full responsibility for it. And under that umbrella, I drive my life by two simple principles. And the first one is the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Sovereign. Yes, I changed it because I realized in my journey that the words I consciously choose to use actually create my reality. So I changed it to Keep It Simple, Sovereign, because I am sovereign and I believe we're all sovereign. And then the second principle is something I coined about 15 years ago, and that's the SUE principle, S-U-E, and that just stands for all are sovereign, unique, and equal. And for me, um, everything else just flows from that, coming from that standpoint, everything. So my life is really, really simple now. Um, when my body's tired, we sleep. When my body's awake, we play. I have only got this. For me, there's only one law and that's do no harm. And I've only got one right and that's the right of self-determination. And by God, do I exercise that.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 03:32
Uh, yeah. Yeah. And like, it's interesting, you know, we, you've already brought up the word sovereign, right? Which is, uh, you know, uh, The concept, if I, you please adjust me if I'm getting it wrong, but you know, in your terms, it's the concept of you being, well, you mentioned master and commander, but you are actually the, you know, the emperor of your life, right?
John Milham (Host) · 03:56
Yeah. I'm the captain of my ship, you know?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 03:59
Yeah. Captain. And speaking of ships, so if I can, you know, push you back to Little Bob, cuz I wanna see,, how you became an emperor, master commander, captain, all in one go, right? So what, what, what, what kicked little Bob off, mate, on his journey?
John Milham (Host) · 04:16
Well, I was born in '52, um, in the Canadian Royal Canadian Hospital in Taplow in Buckinghamshire. I was about 2 months premature. I was cesarean. I was 2 pounds at birth. Mum, mum never forgave me for the scar on her belly. And I don't know why I chose the family that I did, but, uh, and for me, all the damage is done in the first 7 years. Um, yeah, yeah. So my childhood, uh, uh, Dad was absent. He was doing what dads did then, bringing home the bacon, but I never saw him, you know, because he was too busy living his programming. And Mum was a volcano, um, and she would just randomly explode. So I, you know, I used to get beaten whether I was good or bad, which is a bit of a mindfuck for you.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 05:07
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, pretty hard to manage, to work out a pathway through that minefield.
John Milham (Host) · 05:12
Yeah. And, um, so the lessons I learned from, uh, Mum was, Mum has always beaten me, therefore she does not love me, therefore I'm unlovable and it's all my fault. And the second message was, um, the world's a dangerous place because I kept getting beaten. Hey, and I'll tell you what, Mom even sent me to school in England. She was a German refugee. My first school as a 5-year-old, she sent me to school in lederhosen. So I got the hell out of me at school for being the crowd in the playground.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 05:45
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 05:46
Um, I just want a school uniform. I just— oh dear. Anyway, so what I, what I learned um, from my childhood, looking back, it was violent, dysfunctional. But I didn't know that. I just thought this was normal, you know. I wasn't the only kid going to school with black eyes. Yeah. And kids don't talk about what's going on at home like that because it's like taboo, you know. It's family secrets, you know. Yeah. And so, but what I realized was that feeling, how I felt as a child in my family, that feeling became for me Home.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 06:23
Yeah, wow.
John Milham (Host) · 06:24
Home. And so it was full of drama and intensity. And so that subconscious or body memory or whatever you want to call it, emo, I took into adult life and I just kept creating drama and intensity and, you know, and all these horrible situations. I always felt as if I didn't fit in, and my role within the family was I just became a superachiever. I got an amazing intellect. I was always in the top class of every school. I was always in the top 3 in every class. And so I became the, like, the perfect student, the perfect son to take, take the attention away from my dysfunctional family. Yeah. And the message I got from Dad was like, Dad never spends any time with me. Therefore he doesn't love me. Therefore I'm unlovable and it's all my fault. And that's just what children do. Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 07:21
Do, do you, do you now, a, as you look back now, you know, like with those lessons and obviously there's a, you know, an incredible challenge for kids to be set up and programmed that way. And we'll probably, we'll go into that process, no doubt. But, but when you look back, you know, like, do you now know your mom? Do you know why she was, uh, a volcano? Do you know? Know why your, your dad was, was incapable of sharing time. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 07:49
Here's another little story. Yeah. I had my first panic attack in November '84. And so Western medical model, chronic depression, life sentence, take these drugs.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 08:02
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 08:03
Um, in '89, emigrated to Australia with my family, but they didn't like it, so they went back, but I knew I had to stay. And so I'm 6 years into antidepressants and I was living in Fremantle, and we had a sweat lodge in the backyard. Not bad for a fair turner, right? But I, I was at that place in my journey where, God, Mama, I hate you, you're always beating me, you know, why were you always beating me, you know? And but on the other hand It's like, you gotta love your mum cuz you've only got one mum, you know?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 08:40
And it was the rules are must love mum. Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 08:43
Yeah. You gotta love your mum. And it was that dichotomy that was tearing my soul apart. So luckily I came across the work of John Bradshaw. His counterpart today would be Gabor Maté, but I prefer John Bradshaw because of his, his passion and his energy. Anyway, with my new girlfriend who eventually became a psychologist, so that was the end of that relationship. We bought all of John Bradshaw's videotapes and we were a bit of a healing center anyway. So we used to play these videos 2 or 3 nights a week for our friends and people for a gold coin donation. And you know, you can imagine after a couple of months I was word perfect on all of this stuff. It became ingrained in me. And that led me to, yeah, I sat down and I don't know why I did, but this Sounds like Harry Worth. I don't know why it is, but yeah, it was sat down and I sat down and wrote the letter to Mum, and I thought it was just going to be a couple of pages, you know, but it ended up being like War and Peace. It was a real tome. Anyway, dear Mum, I'm just writing to tell you my story of how I felt as a child growing up in our family. Please, please, please, Mum, this is not about blame. I'm just telling you my story please tell me your story. So I started off, you know, I hated it when you, uh, bashed me with a frying pan. I hated it when you dangled me by, by the wrist and hit me with a carpet sweeper. And, you know, just every— because I've been going back to my only childhood with the help of John Bradshaw's stuff. Yeah. And recounting every time that I felt terrified or afraid or, you know, not loved. And so I just wrote them all down, got it all out. It was like a a great big vomit of, yeah, just my story. And so I signed off, please, Mum, this is not about blame, just tell me your story, you know. And the hardest thing I did was walk to the post office and, you know, and post that letter. That was, that was monumental. I was trembling, but I knew I had to do it. Eventually Mum wrote back and said Oh Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, you must think I was the worst mother in the whole world, but I was only doing my very best. So I wrote back, no, Mum, this is not about blame. I mean, a story. So 6 months passed and she, uh, sends me a story. She was born in Germany, 1924, between the wars. Uh, dad was an alcoholic, her mum was a control freak, her cousins were in the SS, all of them were shot. And then I realized, yeah, Mum had a shit childhood too, you know.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 11:27
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 11:27
And the light bulb went off. It was like, yes, you know, I'm sitting here in the hate for Mum. Yes, Mum was doing her very, very best, but all she could do was dump on me what got dumped on her. With her story, I could move from hate through understanding back to love. And then a couple of days later, I phoned her in England. She was back. In hospital, St. John's Hospital, Newbury Berkshire, uh, with a second incidence of bowel cancer, 25 years apart. She was clear for 25 years, but she never heard the message of the first attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was the first time we spoke as mother and son. We were crying our eyes out. Oh, it was— oh, it was so uplifting. It was like somebody had taken an elephant off my shoulder. Anyway, 3, 3 days later she died. Wow, what a beautiful closure. What a beautiful closure. And I was saying the elephant's lifted, and I thought, oh hey, hang on, what's this? What's this niggle in my shoulder? Right, Dad, you bastard! So I got the notepad out.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 12:37
Oh no. Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 12:39
And the letter to Dad, who'd already died. Um, I don't know where, somewhere in England. Um, but I just, you know, wrote, Dad, why didn't you come to school sports days? Why didn't you take me fishing? Why didn't you, you know, you know? And then finished it off and put it in an envelope to Dad in Heaven, and I burned it. And that way I, I closed that, that page on him. But the caveat to Mum's story was, oh, I don't know, about 10 years ago now, I actually contacted Mum through a spiritual medium, and this lady told me stuff that only Mum and I knew.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 13:11
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 13:11
Which blew me away anyway. And the message I got from Mum was saying, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, thank you so much for writing that letter. And because I am now doing the same work with my parents in the beyond.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 13:23
Wow. Okay.
John Milham (Host) · 13:24
And that blew me away. But the, the message I got out of that, uh, and the bonus, the benefit, the gain that I got out of that is by sharing our stories, I was actually able to break the multi-generational cycle of abuse.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 13:40
I'm fascinated, Bob, because like, you know, that letter, like everyone has their story and everyone has their hurts and pains. And it's the not sharing that story, not having anyone listen to that story, you know, that drives Kintsugi Heroes, right? We all have a story that we perhaps need to tell again or, you know, make, you know, pass on to our parents. You know, we probably should be able to get on the mend. That's right. Healing by sharing our stories. That's right. That's your group, which we get to in a bit. Now it's interesting, you know, perhaps we should be able to get onto the net and download a template of, you know, story, you know, letter to dad, right? I suppose, I suppose they are there, right? So, but, um, once you resolve that, the programs that were left there, right? You can feel the, you know, the need to, you know, you can feel the elephant gone. But, but the programs are still in place, so, you know, it's very difficult to move on. You mentioned, you mentioned, uh, your, your family, right? So, you know, tell us a little bit about the journey through loves and, and losses around that stuff.
John Milham (Host) · 14:47
Well, Pam and I've been, uh, I think we got married about '76, something like that. Um, and it was convenient.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 14:55
So you were quite young, you still, you know, and you trained as a craftsman, as a, as a Here internally, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 15:03
But I don't— by that time I'd also gone around the world as an engineering officer on cruise liners and came ashore. And I met Pam through her dad Tom, who was in a folk band. And I love folk music, and so I ended up playing with Tom's folk band and then met his daughter Pam, who already had a little girl, Emma. And I don't know what love is because I never, never knew what love was, you know. But yeah. It was like I'd been supplied an instant family. Pam and I got together and we eventually got married. And so I had the extended family of Tom, um, and, and folk group, and Pam and Emma. And at that time I was working for Esso in research. My mind was having a ball playing with all these, you know, the best toys a boy can have. I was in vehicle testing, you know. And frontline technology. And then Pam was running her little curtains, hand-sewn curtains business, and she made curtains and stuff for people like the Queen's Equerry. And, you know, she was really top-notch. She was earning as much as me working from home. And so, you know, within no time at all, although our first house, we had to tell a load of lies about income to get a loan, you know, but you manage. By the time we got to 1988, '89, we had a 3-bedroom detached house, holidays in France, nothing flash, you know, but we were comfortable. But it was, it was like Pam and I never argued. We were both pressure cookers, if you like, you know. Pam would do something that I found slightly innocuous, and instead of saying, well, you know, I'd swallow it, swallow it. I wasn't mustn't upset mum because you get a flogging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she did, she did the same to me. So over the 12, 13 years of our marriage, we never shared our truth. So we were just two strangers living the magazine life in a magazine house in a magazine world. Yeah. And then when we came to Australia during the last year, we'd start— we'd stop being totally nice to each other and started snapping at each other. So the writing was on the wall. So the idea of coming to Australia for a new life was just a load of bollocks. Yeah, because all we did was we did a geographical. But luckily, uh, we arrived in November '89, so January, February '90, we sat down. They didn't like it, they wanted to go back, but I knew within my heart of hearts that this is where I was destined to be. So, and then we realized what was happening with our relationship, and we were actually just two strangers sharing the same house. And this trend of separation was only going to get worse. So the wisest thing we did then was sit down and say, well, what do you want to do? Pam said, I'll go back and take the kids. And I said, right, here's all our assets, take what you want, you know, from the sale of our house and stuff, take what you want, but that's it. That's the line in the sand, you know, don't come back any later. So she took, um, no, it wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad. I was left with about 50 grand Australian anyway, and she shared the lion's share, and I was fine with that. She went back to the UK, hooked up with her sister, uh, her sister, and, um, they got a bed and breakfast in Weston-super-Mare or something, so they had a home that provided an income. And also she got her curtains thing. But that separation, you know, when they went back, it was like I cried for 6 months, mate. You know, come home and there's no wife there, there's no son there, there's no stepdaughter there, you know. And it was— but luckily I had some great support from my friends in the folk scene and helped me get through that, that period. But it was, it was the kindest cut, you know, because if we'd have gone on and our, our angst and animosity— well, the kids could feel it already, you know, and that's not an environment to bring children up in. Because that, that was the same sort of, you know, shit that I had when I was a kid. But that was it.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 19:20
So they, they call that conscious uncoupling these days, right? So, which is, yeah, you're quite advanced in that process, right? Which is, sounds very civilized. Where does that, where did, because in many ways you weren't civilized, right? You sailed, you know, you were on the on the tall ships, uh, you know, you were a traveling troubadour, right? That's not a civilized life. So where did that civilized, uh, Bob come from?
John Milham (Host) · 19:48
I don't know what you mean, civilized. I suppose when I was working in Bressau and that, at the research center, and the best company I've ever worked for and the best job I've ever had, and going there was like I, I had a family of 400 people You know, it was really such a, a really beautiful place to work. Well, I, I just followed my heart, you know. Um, it was the done thing when working for Esso, you know. Um, I had my own— I'm only a research technician. I never went to university. It was like I was really, really good at networking. And so people used to come to me with a problem and they say, can you solve this? But I'd say no, but I know a man who can, because on site there were about 250 of the top brains in the world.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 20:36
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 20:37
And I knew most of them, got to know them and what their specialty is for. So I became like a, you know, yeah, Bob will fix it, but he'll build a team to do it sort of thing. And through that, I just went up through the ranks pretty, pretty rapidly until I got as far as I could. And I could see, you know, the writing's on the wall, you know, it's all going to plateau and flatten out. It's boring. Um, and that was part of the reason of coming to Australia, you know, to, to shake it up a bit and not have a mortgage anymore, you know? Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 21:10
Yeah. Which sounds more about the, you know, another form of elephant lifting off, just being in shackles to the man. Hey, um, when you came to Australia, you said you knew this is a place you had to be. What was, what did you discover that purpose?, but being in Australia was probably why I don't own a pair of shoes, John.
John Milham (Host) · 21:31
It's, I know on an energetic level, I knew on an energetic level that this just felt like coming home. Mm-hmm. And apparently in a previous life I was a tribal elder in the Northern Territory.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 21:45
So, you know, I, I, you are, you were coming home.
John Milham (Host) · 21:47
Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 21:48
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 21:48
Yeah. So that was interesting. No, for me it's all about energy, you know?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 21:54
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 21:55
As I go through my day, does this feel lift uplifting for me or is this, you know, not nurturing for me? And that's how I guide, guide my journey.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 22:06
How does, how does one, how does a bloke start to be aware? Cuz so many Australians, unlike yourself, mate, they, they don't even sort of notice the energies. They don't notice the the, the, their own voice talking to them. How do, how do you tap into that? How do you suggest someone get connects to themselves?
John Milham (Host) · 22:26
I think one of the best things I ever did was learn how to, to turn my monkey mind off. People do it through meditation as you know, everybody's unique. They'll find their own solution. And if you don't have a current solution, look at all the solutions out there and try one cuz it's not gonna hurt. But for me, I just imagine um, I work in pictures and I got this from Shakti Gawain and her Create Visualization book. So for me, with this monkey mind thing— and it was a blessing to me when I was in research, you know. Yeah, but my intellect loved the challenge. But so one day I just closed my eyes and imagined I'm in an underground tunnel with fluorescent lights Running down the tunnel, a bit like a James Bond movie. End of a tunnel and there's these huge glass doors and I can see beyond the hard drives of my mind. So this is the computer room of my mind.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 23:30
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 23:30
So I go up to the doors and they open. And I could hear the dark satanic hum of these hard drives spinning. Now over on the right-hand wall, there's a big red switch. So I, uh, ambles over there because sailors never walk anywhere. They're all, they're always rollicking or rolling over, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I was rolling over to the switch there and somebody had put up a health warning. Please be aware, thinking can really damage your wellbeing. Look, good on you, mate.. And so in my mind's eye, in this little video, I just grabbed all the lever and went, turn, clank. And then the hard drive starts spinning down. And so I played that video over and over and over in my mind's eye until I came to the realization that my mind is just a tool that I use when I choose. And so now being a custodian, a good parent, I know my intellect needs exercise. And it's like my dog, so I treat it like my dog. Okay, mind, I can see you're feisty today. Why don't you go off and do some research into sonoluminescence? So off it goes, wagging its little tail, because it's had some attention from the master. And it comes back, reports to me, I pat it on the head and say, thank you, mind, you've done a brilliant job, mate. Here's a treat, back in your basket. I'll take you for another run tomorrow. And that's the relationship that I have with my mind. It's just a another tool in the toolbox of this spiritual mechanic.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 25:03
Right. Beautiful. I, I, I'm, I, there's something to try there, mate. I'm, I love the, uh, the visualization. I, I would, you know, you grew up, you know, spent quite a lot of time in the IT industry. I know that room, right? So I can visualize it quite easy. So, you know, in especially even the red, even the red light, uh, latch, we used to put a sign on saying You know, do not touch this red latch, which was of course enormously ineffective. The first thing everyone did was go over and stare at it.
John Milham (Host) · 25:34
So yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 25:36
Fabulous. Once you turned off your overthinking, what did you fill the space with?
John Milham (Host) · 25:45
Easy. It was already filled with my inner intuition.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 25:49
Right. Which taught you or expressed itself how?
John Milham (Host) · 25:52
Really, my guide— my guide— I bet my life on trusting my intuition around about 2006. Whereas while I was trying to heal from my childhood, I totally lost belief in me. So that, that rite of passage of recapturing— do you want me to tell that little story about how I recaptured it?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 26:13
Please.
John Milham (Host) · 26:14
Yeah, again, going back to John Bradshaw and his work on the inner child. I asked myself this question, uh, what's the earliest recollection I have of no longer believing in me? And I was about 4 and a half, 4 and 3/4 years old, because quarters are important when you're little. Yeah, uh, it was a Sunday morning. I'm about to start bed and comb my hair and brush my teeth and put on my red t-shirt and bounce down to breakfast. My mum said, 'Bobby, go and put on your blue t-shirt. You know you love your blue t-shirt.' So I stood up confused, thinking, 'No, I love my red t-shirt. That's why I put it on.' But mum's mum— yeah, she's 80-foot tall and she's very violent. So I went up and I put my blue t-shirt on. And that's my earliest recollection of me no longer trusting in my inner knowing and bowing and taking the belief that somebody else has authority over my life. And that habit just extrapolated through my life. But by going to 2008, I was on my boat, Fidelio, in Pioneer Bay up here, and it was about 7:30 at night. Pioneer Bay is surrounded by mangrove trees where crocodiles live, and it's after dark, so the sharks are out feeding. And I was down below on my laptop on my little dog behind me's Facebook page, which was a laugh. And all of a sudden the lights went dim and I couldn't breathe. I'd stopped breathing. I couldn't breathe. And I looked over to the voltmeter, it said 13 volts, so I knew it wasn't me, you know, an electrical issue. And then just off to the side of my vision here, there was this black, silky wispiness that you see in like some of the Mummy movies, you know, right?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 28:05
Yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 28:06
I turned my head around and I couldn't, couldn't I couldn't bring it into full focus. So I typed into Facebook, hey guys, can you get the volunteer marine rescue to come out and get Barnaby? Because I thought I was going to die, I was having a stroke or something. And my fear was that when I died, after he'd eaten me, he'd starve, you know. So I still couldn't, still couldn't breathe. And I don't know about you, but in these moments of like near death, and I've got a few Time is irrelevant. Time is irrelevant. So I'm looking at this whispering essence there. Oh no, bloody hell, it's all over, Red Rover. The Grim Reaper has come to get me. But I could have typed in, hey, get the ambos out here, I think I'm having a stroke. And I just sat and let my body do what it wants to. So I'm below decks, it's hot and humid, it's dark. It wouldn't be, you know, in those conditions. And I just let my body walk up on deck and I looked up, and I saw two full moons, big full moons like that. And then my body just threw itself into the bay. Crocodiles, sharks, and yeah. And then I rolled over onto my back, and then all of a sudden there was a big— and I spread out like a great big starfish. All of a sudden this one, ah, and I was breathing again. And that was the night I consciously chose to bet my life on my intuition. And that was my rite of passage. Wow. That's what I said.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 29:42
So intuition as a, becomes a, a path, a, a shiny path for you, right? So where does it take you?
John Milham (Host) · 29:53
To contentment. It's, it's amazing. Like all the books I've written, I haven't written them. They came through me and they came through Like, how can I explain it? Within the silence of my heart, now that my mind's silenced, within the silence of my heart, I found a place I call my knowing. And my knowing has no words. It's just like a feeling of indestructibility, of contentment. But it's also a place that contains a doorway to what I call the universal library of all there is to know. Some people call it the Akashic Record. And simply by spending time, you know, within, my connection to that place is getting stronger and stronger. And that's, that's where my writing comes from, you know. It's coming through me. And the same with my music, you know. Although I've never written an original song, I've written a few parodies, but it's that process of being in the green room getting shit scared and frightened. But that's the good thing because it's my body, my soul, my spirit raising its level of vibration so that I can go out on stage and, and share that energy. And that's what people pick up on before I've even sung a note. It's what I'm radiating on stage. And if that process doesn't happen, I have a shit gig. Yeah, because the energy is— now the channel isn't open, if you like.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 31:17
Tell us a bit about your music. What have you— where did it come from and, and what have you done with it? Over the years.
John Milham (Host) · 31:24
I've even been in a, a klezmer bush dance band. Now, yeah, uh, when did it begin? Um, oh my, '72. This is my 60th year as a paid stage performer.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 31:41
Wow.
John Milham (Host) · 31:41
I started off in, uh, Saint Nicholas Church choir at the age of 12 and got paid 5 bob for a wedding or 5 bob for a funeral, seems like God didn't differentiate between the two.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 31:55
He was equally happy at either end of the process to give you 5 bob.
John Milham (Host) · 31:58
Yeah, yeah. And then I've always, I've always sung. Um, 14 or 15, in Woodwork, um, I built my first guitar, but it was electric and I didn't like it. And I came across the world of folk music uh, sea shanties and traditional songs. Got myself a guitar and taught myself to play with Bert Wiggins' Play in a Day songbook. And it had some great tunes in there, like The Grand Old Duke of York. Yeah, I thought, this is a load of bollocks. So I, I came across a guy called Tim Hardin, um, and his songbook. And what he said at the opening was, it's— don't complicate things. It's not what you put into a song It's what you leave out. And I just love that. I love that. And so the first song I learned to play on the guitar was If I Were a Carpenter by Tina Harding. Yeah. And from there, um, I eventually joined a local rock band as lead vocal and tambourine player and rhythm guitarist. And, um, yeah, we were called Brag, and we were out 2, 3 nights a week just playing pubs and clubs and Yeah, it was good. And then I went to— then when I finished my engineering apprenticeship and my engineering college stuff, I went to sea as an engineer. And I used to play regularly on, uh, we always had a pub night on the boat, you know, to entertain the passengers. Then when I came ashore, I got into folk music again with Pam's dad Tom, and bands like the Berkshire Ramblers, Kelpie. Really, my music didn't take off until I came to Australia and quit my proper grown-up job with Sarich in Western Australia, bought my combi and went off around Australia singing at all the folk festivals. In Western Australia, I played with lots of little plastic Paddy Manns. I know more Irish songs than most Irish people do. So I was out 3 or 4 nights a week, um, and Irish clubs and Irish pubs, playing all night, doing the gallon of Guinness every night, and still getting home with one eye closed because there were too many white lines down the middle of the road.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 34:15
Yeah, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 34:19
But the music scene in Freo and Perth was very vibrant, and there was always different bands. And I got recruited to play for the Folk Federation annual bush dance And the band was some friends of mine, a girlfriend at the time who was a Jewish ballet dancer and folk singer, right?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 34:39
Of course.
John Milham (Host) · 34:40
And she had a band, uh, and they were Jewish and klezmer, and there was a clarinet and a hurdy-gurdy and stuff. I like— but we, we pulled it off. We, we did a few stats. But I've, I've sung everything, you know, blues, rock and roll, but my heart always goes back to Folk music. Yeah, Irish music.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 35:01
You— I see that guitar behind you. Do you have a 2-minute song in you? Tell us some story in music.
John Milham (Host) · 35:08
But I'm, I, you know, I'm not up to concert, mate.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 35:12
No, and this isn't a concert. I'm not going to pay you anything, so you can give me the free version, mate.
John Milham (Host) · 35:17
This song is pivotal for me. Every time I sing it, I dedicated it to my son. Um, because like in my journey, my dad abandoned me when I was 6, and then with my son we separated when, um, he was 6. And it's called Sonny's Dream, and it's written by some guy from Newfoundland, and I can't remember his name. Sunny lives on a farm, so wide open space. Kick off your shoes and get out of the race. Lay down your head By a sweet riverbed. But Sonny always remembers the words his mama said. Sonny, don't go away. I am here all alone. Your daddy's a sailor, never comes home, and the nights are so long. Silence goes on and I'm feeling so tired and not all that strong. Now Sonny works on the farm, though he's barely a man. Not a lot to do, but he does what he can. And he watches the seed From his room by the stairs, the waves come on rolling, they tumble and begin. It's 100 miles to town, Sonny's never been there, but he goes to the highway and he stands there and stares. And the mail truck's at 4. The mailman, he's old, but he still has his dreams full of silver and gold. So sonny, don't go away, I am here all alone. Your daddy is a sailor who never came home. The nights are so long, the silence goes on, and I'm feeling so tired and not all that strong. Well, Sonny's dream most damn real, there the storm is his red, there the stars in his eyes and the dreams in his head, and he's hungry and Outside, to this great big world outside. I know I can't hold him though I've tried, how I've tried. Sammy, don't go away. I am here all alone. Your daddy's a sailor who never came home. The nights are so long, the silence goes on. But I'm feeling so tired at night, all that's long. Sun, don't go away.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 39:14
Mate, that's, uh, that's an incredible song. Thank you. Yeah. Wow, I could see like in every line there's something, you know, how does that connect you? Like how is the relationship with your son and daughter and stepdaughter?
John Milham (Host) · 39:32
Well, after the separation there was a little bit of communication, you know, and they've got, they know where I am and, uh, but they just stopped communicating and it takes two to tango and that was hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Pam's done a great job in bringing him up. No, an engineer for British Aerospace. Um, wow. Looking at, um, alternative materials for aircraft and stuff. So yeah, that was hard, but you know, as I said, it takes two to tango.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 40:02
Yeah. Everyone has their journey. Hopefully he gets to his letter.
John Milham (Host) · 40:07
Yeah, hopefully too. Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 40:10
Yeah. But that, um, but I felt that, uh, I felt your, uh, your son in that song, so thank you. That was surprisingly good, Bob. I didn't, uh, I'm very impressed. Thank you. Yeah, not that, not that I'm a critic you care about, but, uh, so good.
John Milham (Host) · 40:26
I think, I think what I have even— Lee Marvin had a number one hit, didn't he?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 40:30
Yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Paint Your Wagon.
John Milham (Host) · 40:33
Yeah, so my, my fingers still haven't got the tips hardened, you know. They need to— I need to play the guitar more often so I can get that clarity on the strings. And my voice has got a bit croaky over the years, um, but the more I sing, the more it clears itself out. So yeah, and I'm getting back into it because I'd— singing for me is— every song I've learned, really, apart from the ones you have to learn, but yeah, yeah, yeah, um, they've always had a story and I always had an emotional, uh, message for me.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 41:08
It's interesting, like the sea and the, and the song always seem to go together. How come you've got— like, was— did the song come out of your love for the sea, or, you know, is it sort of compulsory to have a song when you're on the sea, right? What's the story there?
John Milham (Host) · 41:26
Um, well, when I got into the folk scene, everybody back then, which is like '69, '70, was singing sea shanties. Everybody in the folk club knew them, and they're dead easy. They're call and response, you know. Yeah, you can make them up as you go. Yeah, um, also I'm Cancerian, so I'm, you know, the crab. I'm— I've got connection to water. And so although shanties weren't really prevalent in my UK, uh, musical offerings, when I got to Australia in Fremantle, um, I joined the crew of the STS Lewin II, three-masted Barkentine. That has recently been crushed alongside B Shed, Victoria Quay, by a huge bloody container ship. Got totally dismasted. Anyway, yeah, so I got involved with the Lewin, and there was a sea shanty band in the area called the Fo'xall Firkins. You should see what we've been called in the press. Yeah, we were touring. We got— we were touring a bit, you know, when we could, sponsored by Guinness and Healthways. I never knew that worked out. I was a great asset because I knew loads of shanties and I played the guitar and the banjo, bit of mandolin, and the bower on the Irish drum.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 42:43
Yep.
John Milham (Host) · 42:44
And, um, we even played for Prince Charles one day in, I think it was '93, '94, when he came over to, to look at the Bark Endeavour replica that we built because it was patron. And there he comes off the boat, you know, after looking around He's got his entourage in black suits and dark glasses with him. We're on the dock there. Endeavour was her name, me boys, Endeavour she did show. Oh, she jolly adventured where no other ship would go. Johnny leans forward to me, puts his hand out, and he said, jolly fine song, Japs, and you seem to know all the words. I looked him straight in the eye and said, yes, mate, we wrote it. No chance of a knighthood for me, mate.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 43:30
No, no, no. Yeah, Order of Australia gone in one, one smart-ass riposte.
John Milham (Host) · 43:37
It was truth. It was the truth, you know. Yep.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 43:41
Yeah, well, the truth will set you free, right? So, you know, yeah, free of worrying about having to, you know, put a suit on for a ceremony. Interesting, you know, because it sounds, you know, like a music and, and, uh, you know, uh, success and, you know, intentional healing and all of that stuff, right? But of course, uh, you know, there's plenty of setbacks in your story, mate, and, um, and challenges. So what, you know, what did you, what did you learn about those, those things? What were, what were the tough times for you?
John Milham (Host) · 44:19
Well, again, because I'm Master and Commander and take full responsibility, When I look at my depression and the onset of that and all that followed, I say to myself, okay, you've created this event, this phenomenon in your life. What's the lesson you need to learn from it? Yeah. The lesson I needed to learn was to stop living my programming, go and question everything to establish my own truth. And so I did. I just started questioning everything. And I was so angry when I realized that everything I held as true was absolute load of lies. What I got from my parents, what I got from the indoctrination system, what I got from the mainstream media, it was all a pack of lies. So I just, and I set that to be my life purpose, to simplify my own truth.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 45:05
But you, you, you wrote a book about your depression and your journey out of it, and you, you know, describe it as a gift.
John Milham (Host) · 45:11
Yeah, it was, it was after 20 years. For taking just about every antidepressant, uh, legal, uh, current. It shouldn't be legal. Yeah, I just realized that they were doing what they were intended to do, which was keep me away from my feelings. I was living life like Robert the Robot, not in touch with my feelings. And it was only when I threw— but it was on the boat again— threw my meds in the bay. So there's probably a load of psychotic sharks out there. And then luckily being on the boat, I just let my body do what it needed to do to cold turkey off the— and I don't recommend it for anybody because 2 or 3 times a day I'd go to hell and back. I was shaking, screaming, sweating, vomiting, just with the underlying belief that my body knows what it needs to do and I'm just gonna let it do it. Yeah. You know, it's not something you do in the supermarket, just say, They throw you in the loony bin.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 46:11
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you could, yeah, you probably gotta find a shark-filled bay to go through this with so no one disturbs you. So, and of course, you know, you've walked that truth through physical challenges and so on. You're, you know, you're dealing with, you know, illness and cancer and so on. How do you hold to that? I know it's a hard walk.
John Milham (Host) · 46:34
Well, again, with this Prostate cancer. Again, I asked myself this question, why have I created this event in my life? What's the lesson I need to learn from it? And as soon as I asked the universe that question, it came back, bang. The universe just said to me, Bob, it's time for you to put up or shut up. You either fold back into your programming of the Western medical model.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 46:55
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 46:56
Or you walk your talk about nature, uh, natural remedies. Science is the sickness and nature is the cure. So it's really, I've created this and it's through the, all the, the term cancer and stuff means it has given me so much energy, so much incentive to find my way through. I did it my way. And actually, this may sound weird, but this, this journey I'm on, uh, I do feel like Captain Hook. I'm on a voyage of discovery.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 47:30
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 47:30
Using my body as a laboratory and natural remedies. Well, I'll try this. What, what's the impact on my body? Is it good or is it bad? If it's good, I keep it and I try this. And so using, um, lots of natural remedies like chlorine dioxide and borax, baking soda, ah, Celtic sea salt, my little hot tub, paddling pool. My nebulizer with chlorine dioxide. When I, when I try and measure it, see, my doc, my GP, scared because my PSA numbers are still, you know, rising, but all my hundreds of blood tests are all perfect. Yeah, I'm the only one taking a whole view of my, you know, my condition. And my yardstick for what I'm doing is, well, what's my quality of life What was it like today? And what was it like 3 months ago?
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 48:23
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 48:24
Uh, 3 months ago I was in level 8 pain for a lot of the time. Now I'm very rarely in pain, only at night, and it's just enough to stop me from sleeping, but I'm running up, taking a walk or taking a jog. And, uh, yeah, so that's my— and that just says to me that what I'm doing is working for me and just reinforces this belief that I totally trust in my own process. And the only time I experience any fear is when I forget that for a while. So I just remind myself, I totally trust in my own process.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 49:07
Wow. Um, and of course, you know, that's a brave journey as well because every, all the other voices are telling you that it's not the right choice. So, you know, how does, how does courage work for you?
John Milham (Host) · 49:22
Um, I've never been in a fistfight in my life, so I'm not manly in that way, you know, mainly because my, my childhood was so violent. But I've been down in the engine room of a cruise liner where the starboard turbine's on fire and we're listing 22 degrees to port crossing the Irish Sea., and there's 28-odd engineers down there shitting themselves cuz they think we're either gonna explode or tip over. So I've been there, done that, and that was just part of my life at sea. And I've faced many fires, but facing my demons is like just, uh, another level. What I realized was what was my fear? What was my fear when I had that panic attack? And so my body's overwhelmed by all those feelings, you know. And that's what prompted the antidepressants, because they cut me off from them so I could function as Robert the Robot. But going back and realizing that the, the power of those feelings that I was having at the time are simply a measure of how powerful I truly am. So it's about owning them, absorbing them, honoring them. And so with that, that level of power was a few demons, you know, but be gone demons. Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 50:42
Thou shall not pass. Right. You know, I love that. You look a bit like Gandalf, mate. So that's cool. Oh, with that, with that, you know, with that decision and that understanding that you can own the power, you know, bring it back into your hand, you choose your, you have, you know, you popped up on your t-shirt on The Men, right? A group that you, you run for blokes up in the, um, up in North Queensland, right? And you offer, offer service in a number of places and so on. What is that the purpose of, of, of this journey? Is that, you know, is it about, you know, being, finding our truth and then sharing, you know, and being in service to others?
John Milham (Host) · 51:24
Well, going back to all are sovereign, unique, and equal, I see every sentient being as holding a piece of the jigsaw puzzle, like the meaning of life, you know. Um, but most people's piece of jigsaw puzzle is still brown cardboard on both sides. As you do more and more of the works, so you start coloring in your piece of the puzzle. And when you put it on the table, as more and more people do that, the bigger picture becomes clearer for us all, which led me to the realization Simply by sharing our stories, we help to heal each other.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 52:01
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 52:02
And it is that simple. Keep it simple, sovereign. Yeah. The mind complicates things. You get discussion panels and, you know, all that blah, blah, blah, Headspace. Um, but the answer is simple. Feelings are healings. All you have to do is sit around a campfire and share your truth. You know, if you want to, no pressure.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 52:24
Feelings are healings. I'm gonna have to, you know, take that and, uh, you know, that's our, uh, our, uh, our snippet. Feelings are healing. Given that, what do you want the world to do right, or to change or to know?
John Milham (Host) · 52:41
Well, my mission, which is all that drives me at the moment, this is my main source of energy, if you like. My mission is to eradicate suicide, and from what I've experienced in my life, I know it is doable. And for me, there is no such thing as mental illness, but that's another story. Uh, one of my YouTube videos talks about that, so people can check that out if they want to. But I can, you know, from my own, my own standpoint, I can prove logically in heart space that there is no such thing as mental illness. Yeah. And my explanation for that is like my depression was my, which is a set of behaviors. Yeah. And the, the psychs put a label on it, but it's just a set of behaviors. Bang, my depression was just my body telling me to wake up. And I reckon everything else these bastards have labeled, put a label on all those different, uh, behaviors are just that person's unique way his body or her body is saying, come on, you need to wake up. And the longer you stay asleep, the more painful I'm going to be for you. And so that's why I said there's no such thing as mental illness. When people do the work and find their center and get in touch with their heart, then— and it's happening, John, it's happening. You know, we're well into the age of integrity. Integrity is overcoming power. I think we passed the tipping point., and I'm just so blessed to be alive to witness the ascension of us as humans, because for me it's all done and dusted. We have one. Mm-hmm. We have one. That's pretty deep, eh? Yeah.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 54:20
We just went there, but it's even better than that. It's not just deep, it's positive, it's exciting, it's inspiring. Uh, which is why I love hanging out with you, mate. It's been an absolute pleasure. To listen to some of the truth, Bob Eden's truth, which is extraordinary. And I really, I just want to thank you for sharing so boldly, another evidence of your courage and for singing for us, mate. It was absolutely delightful.
John Milham (Host) · 54:50
And thanks for prompting me to sing because it wasn't in there, but yeah, I'm glad I did. It's such a beautiful, beautiful song.
Bob Eden (R) (Guest) · 55:00
Beautiful song. Beautiful. It's been a joy to chat, mate, and I look forward to the next time. So thank you, Bob Eden.
John Milham (Host) · 55:11
Thank you for listening to this episode of Connecting Seniors, a Kintsugi Heroes special series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.
Subscribe
Spotify
Apple