Craig Gooze
A former detective raised $1.5 million for children's cancer by turning his daughter's death into three endurance challenges, then applied her lessons to his own.
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Craig Gooze was a decorated New South Wales detective raising five children when his seven-year-old daughter Jessica was diagnosed with Ewing's sarcoma, a rare bone cancer. The diagnosis came the same month he joined an elite covert police unit investigating organised crime and police corruption. For the next two years, Craig balanced undercover operations within ten minutes of the hospital with shifts at his daughter's bedside, keeping routine and normality as his anchor point for the whole family.
When Jessica lost her right arm to amputation and doctors told Craig her lungs were full of tumours, he made a choice: turn his grief into purpose. Before she died at age nine, Jessica asked him to complete a second expedition across Australia. Craig taught himself to paddle a surf ski in nine months and completed a 1,000-kilometre ocean paddle from Avalon Beach to Broad Beach, raising $150,000 for children's cancer. After Jessica's death, he ran, cycled, and paddled 5,000 kilometres across the country in 34 days, raising $350,000. In 2009, he undertook a third endurance challenge, this time raising $1 million for the Children's Cancer Institute.
Craig spent 24 years in the police force, working covertly to dismantle drug networks and catch corrupt officers. He learned that the people he arrested were not one-dimensional villains but fathers, coaches, and neighbours operating in different circumstances. Twenty years after Jessica lost her arm, Craig was diagnosed with Merkel cell carcinoma on the same arm, on the same date. He has since faced melanoma and ongoing immunotherapy. Today, his podcast Conviction reached the top ten per cent globally, and a television series based on his story is in development with respected Australian actors and directors.
⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief & loss, which some listeners may find distressing.
If you need support, you're not alone. Help is available: • Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au • GriefLine: 1300 845 745 · griefline.org.au
“I never believed she was going to die until that last few months. Um, when we found that she had the seven tumors in the lungs... I think turning a negative to a positive and acting on that positive is the way that I handled it.”
“Watching Jess go through chemo, having her arm amputated, you know, tomorrow's another day. Let's get on with it. You'd be there playing a board game in uh and she'd be hooked up to the chemo and all of a sudden you'd see what was going to happen and you'd hold the bucket and she'd vomit out the bucket. You'd put it down and she'd have her move on the chessboard or the the game that you were playing. Yeah. There was no feeling sorry for themselves.”
“The balance the balance, even though it seems hard, the balance was good for me cuz it kept my mind going. And even when I was in hospital doing uh log sheets on what I'd just done that day, putting in my diary and and doing statements that kept me busy and kept my mind off things.”
The hero, today
Craig kept his family functioning during Jessica's cancer treatment by maintaining routine and normality, refusing to isolate the sick child or show favoritism among his other two children, even while working undercover operations nearby. When Jessica asked him to complete a second marathon after her diagnosis, Craig committed to finishing it regardless of circumstance, embodying the attitude that you do the thing you said you would do, even if it is not in the right time. Craig learned from watching Jessica endure chemotherapy, amputation, and terminal illness that children do not feel sorry for themselves the way adults do; they move through each day without complaint and play board games while hooked to machines. The criminals Craig arrested over twenty years were not one-dimensional evil but ordinary people with families, jobs, and weekends spent at kids' sports, though they operated in a different business; he treated them with the same respect he would anyone else. Craig's ongoing cancer diagnosis came exactly twenty years after Jessica's amputation, on the same date, in the same arm, teaching him to apply her example of routine and normality rather than self-pity to his own treatment.
Yes. Craig Gooze is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Craig kept his family functioning during Jessica's cancer treatment by maintaining routine and normality, refusing to isolate the sick child or show favoritism among his other two children, even while working undercover operations nearby.
When Jessica asked him to complete a second marathon after her diagnosis, Craig committed to finishing it regardless of circumstance, embodying the attitude that you do the thing you said you would do, even if it is not in the right time.
Craig learned from watching Jessica endure chemotherapy, amputation, and terminal illness that children do not feel sorry for themselves the way adults do; they move through each day without complaint and play board games while hooked to machines.
[Music] Welcome back to Kugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. In this episode, Natalie Stockdale is joined by Craig Goozy. He shares his remarkable journey from being a dedicated father and ultramarathon runner to serving in one of Australia's elite covert police units. After losing his daughter to cancer, Craig turned his grief into action by taking on endurance challenges to support kids with cancer. He speaks honestly about the tough moments on his runs and his demanding years undercover in law enforcement. Craig also reflects on his ongoing fight with cancer, finding strength in past experiences and the support of others. His story is one of perseverance, purpose, and learning through every challenge faced. [Music] Craig, welcome to Kugi Heroes. Thanks, Natalie. It really is an honor to have you as our guest. I'm happy to be here. Greg, you've been a decorated police detective, a devoted father who faced a heartbreaking loss of a child, and an ultra endurance athlete for charity. For those new to your story, can you give us a brief overview of your journey? Yeah, sure. Look, I'm a father of five. Uh, I joined the police service when I was um 17. uh did all the normal things and um end up being in a plane closed unit back in the 90s. Uh during that time I had three kids. I had Jessica who was around seven, uh Tim who was five and Kylie who was three. Uh we were sort of in um what was called the anti theft squad. It was just a a unit that was set up to target active criminals who were doing things, thefts, breaking enters. Uh then we got used by the detectives a lot to um covertly surveil other criminals as well. Had a lot of success there with a lot of the jobs that we did. And I moved on to the special crime unit. Uh it was around this time that sadly my 7-year-old daughter Jessica got diagnosed with u saroma which is a rare bone cancer. She had it in her right elbow. Um, and then suddenly, yeah, we started a 12-month period of chemo, radiation, and living in and out of hospitals. And it was actually the same month that she got diagnosed, I got asked uh by Peter Ryan to go to a new elite section called the Special Crime Unit to investigate organized crime and police corruption. This is just after the Woods Royal Commission. So, that was uh very interesting. And after having discussions with my wife, we agreed to to do it. and um stayed working with them and sort of had that life balance of working uh in undercover role with the police on organized crime and then uh spending my time in the hospital which was at Ramwick. Luckily the first job that we had was on a um a criminal by the name of Les Kalachi who operated around the King's Cross Kuji area. So it was only within 10 minutes of the hospital. So that was fortunate in that way. stayed there for a long time and uh after 12 months Jessica she got the all clear actually but during that time in the hospital I I thought oh these kids need a lot there wasn't a lot there and the hospitals going back in the '9s there was I think 40 kids in one ward there was two televisions to share which was on a trolley um there was no machines where they used to have to go and get in an ambulance and go to other hospitals to get different parts of treatment so I decided to uh run a a charity. The best way I thought to do it was I've always been a bit of a fitness fanatic and I used to row surf boats for Avon surf uh club. So I thought rather than row that year I'd learn how to paddle a surf scheme I'd paddle from Sydney to Queensland and end up carrying the gold medal to present at the Australian title. So it was from Avalon to Broad Beach and the cause was cancer. So we started a charity called A2B for sea and that was uh 16 days out in the ocean. We raised about 158 $150 odd,000 with that one. And uh at the same time we just finished one of the major jobs there on Les Kachi and I think we arrested about 70 drug dealers and uh two corrupt police who were involved in the job. moved on to another job uh on Netti Smith's old gang, Glenn Flack and Richard Harry Harris. Uh notorious bank robbers um drug dealers etc. A very interesting job and uh some of the other players that came into it was very interesting as well around that time. Jessica unfortunately got rediagnosed. We went in for normal checks and everything else and we found that the uh the tumor had come back and all the chemo and everything else hadn't worked. And unfortunately at the age of eight given the only option to amputate her right arm. Uh you know as I say it's very hard trying to tell your 8-year-old that she's going to lose her dominant arm, let alone any arm. But uh like a true trooper, she took it on the chin. It was a very hard time. I remember um you know we were going through a rough time as well just handling all the situations of work and family and what was going on with Jessica. But we got through that. She had her arm amputated and uh she had to start another six month of treatment. We went through all that. Um and then it was probably not long after I think we finished the uh the Flack Harris job which was successful. So we end up arresting them with multiple amounts of drugs and guns and it went on for a while. But um at the same time Jessica got rediagnosed. The um amputation hadn't worked and sadly I was in there when she had another routine operation on her lungs and they found that her lungs were full of tumors and were virtually given. There was no other option that you know she was going to pass away. We end up taking her away to places that now I knew she'd love, which was Rainforest and Barrier Reef and end up out at Fiji and the Starlight Foundation came in and sent her up to the Gold Coast to do all the theme park. She would have loved to have been able to go to Disneyland, but you know, time ran short and unfortunately at the age of nine and a bit she um she passed away. Yeah. um before she passed away, she asked me, you know, the kids in the hospital, not only Jessica, there was a lot of kids in the hospital that got a lot out of that first marathon because we tried to involve kids in the hospital and their families and schools and everything else. But Jessica said one time when I was lying on the floor watching TV, she said, "Hey, Dad, how about we do another marathon?" I said, "Well, it's all right for you, Jess, to say that before dad's going to do it." She said, "Well, I've got a couple of uh things, stipulations, and that's one I'm going to come on this one." I said, "Oh, it sounds all right." She said, "Uh, two, I'm not going to let you go out with the sharks that you came across in the first one." And I said, "That sounds good." And I said, "Well, let's do another A to B for C being, you know, the first one Avalon to Broad Beach for cancer." So, I said, "Here's a Australian Atlas." I said, "How about we finish in Broken Bay where we live in the bay?" So, we finish with all our town people and be great. I said, "How about you pick somewhere starting with A?" And I could see her looking down at the atlas and I thought hopefully it's Aubry or close. Yeah, pretty close. But the little bugger pigs Albany in Western Australia. Yep. So I thought if I can't go out the with the sharks, you know, as you know in Western Australia there's massive white pointers down there and all the way through the bottom of South Australia, Cactus Beach and that. So I thought I'd better learn how to uh ride a bike as well now and get the old running shoes back out. So um that's what I did. I end up doing that. I when she passed away, I sort of uh just went into a a no-go mode, I suppose, and didn't want to do anything. But um after a couple of months passed, I thought, "No, it'd be great to to complete something that she asked to do." Um so, yeah, that was 34 days across the country, 5,000 km. We end up raising about $350 odd,000, which is a lot of money in those days. We're going back to the year 2000. It's a lot of money these days. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we're able to buy a lot of stuff for the hospital which was good. I was able to liaz with the doctors and ask what they wanted and we could work together which was great and the rest of the money went to research which I'm still part of the children's cancer institute of Australia always helping them as well. Um, yeah. So I end up in the police in the special crime unit for another probably 5 years and probably 5 years too long. When I joined, there was a stipulation that or a contract that we signed that we were only going to be in there for three years because of the stress involved. I tried to get out, but um we had sort of been I'd been putting as a team leader on quite a big job that was involved police corruption and other crimes. And they uh virtually said, "No, you're um you're right into this investigation. We're not going to let you go." I end up, you know, having a few arguments and I started vomiting at work and getting rashes under my chin here. And so I just started applying for any job that I could to get away from the section. It sort of I went from being on a super high of being successful, which we were, but I just want didn't want to be there anymore. It was affecting not only me but my family. Um and I won't go into the whole details of everything but um yeah I end up leaving the service after 24 years and uh that was pretty much it. I I started a new career in fitness and become a personal trainer and then end up in Japan coaching rugby union up until co and and come back. But um in 2009, I thought I'd love to do one more thing while I was still fit and able and decided to do another ultramarathon to raise money. And this time I wanted to raise a million dollars, the Children's Cancer Institute. Were moving. They were actually building a new building over at the um the New South Wales University, and it was going to cost them10 million. And I thought if I can raise $1 million, it's a tenth of the cost of the build. So that was the aim this time. I hadn't really made a name, but um I thought, you know, if a million people in Australia gave me a dollar, that's all it was. And to reach out for them and show them what I was prepared to do to get the million dollars, hopefully that would happen. So yeah, it was I planned the same thing, a a cycle run and paddle around the country from Sydney to Sydney, which was Australia Square to Benolong Point being the opera house. Took me 91 days. uh did it a magnificent journey in uh I suppose what you see and what you can do and what you learn about yourself and what you learn about other humans especially as well. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for that overview. We're going to cover the three chief subjects of your life that have significantly shaped your life. Let's start with the most tragic and the one that's probably the hardest for you to talk about. That is losing Jessica. Can you take us back to 1997 when everything changed for your family? You're in the midst of dangerous covert police work when your 7-year-old daughter Jessica was diagnosed with the rare bone disease that you mentioned before, Euing's saroma. It's an unimaginable situation for any parent. How did you cope with balancing your duty as a police officer and the fight to save your daughter's life? Normality was the biggest thing in keeping in a routine, especially with family as well. You know, considering we had two other kids to look after, there was, you know, Tim and Kylie who we just couldn't put on the side on the bench and and forget about. We had to try and keep things normal as possible and not show any favoritism or anything else. My wife, she worked in a family business, so she continued working. Even if she had to go in hospital, she'd take her work with her. I unfortunately couldn't do that. I could take work in after I'd done jobs. Um, and I was able to balance after after work, my shifts in in hospital as well. But we tried to keep as normal as possible. We did everything that a family would normally do. There's obviously things that interrupt, you know, when you're doing chemo and she's sick and radiation or you might be in there for 6 days straight sharing shifts and you don't see each other, but we still tried to just keep everything exactly the same. Coping with the death, I don't think you ever do in a way. It's something that haunts you forever in a way. uh especially being a child and you know there'd be so many people here who have people have died who are close to them whether they be old or or young there's no difference it still affects you in a certain way but especially a child does because you know their life's just starting and they're just becoming a young person yeah but um it's extremely hard and I think everyone handles it differently and I think maybe my coping mechanism was doing these marathons Jessica endured aggressive treatments in hospitals, even as you mentioned before, even the amputation of her right arm. Tragically, she lost a battle with cancer in June 1999 at just 9 years old. How did her passing affect you as a father and as a person? Look, I never believed she was going to die until that last few months. Um, when we found that she had the seven tumors in the lungs and uh I was pulled aside in the hospital. Lisa was at home with the other kids waiting cuz she was meant to be in there for a routine operation and that's when everything hit home with me. I broke down in the hospital. Um, but I suppose at the end of the day, I'm a bit of a realist. uh you can't change things that are going to happen in certain ways. You can just be positive about things. I think I said on my podcast, you know, the advantage that we had was we knew she was going to die where some people if they had their kid hit by a bus on the way home from school, they don't have that opportunity to spend those last beautiful moments together. So, I think turning a negative to a positive and acting on that positive is the way that I handled it. But it is still a hard thing that you got to have to to go through. Absolutely. So would you say that was your attitude that helped you get through your grief? Was there anything else any any other resources that helped you to get through the grief? No, look, I think there was counselors there. Both Lisa and I uh didn't want to involve ourselves in counselors and there's nothing wrong with counselors. I said everyone's different. Um we're both pretty strong willed. She's a fantastic runner and very strong willed as well u with certain things but has that softer side. Um yeah, we we were happy to handle it ourselves and I think that's what we did. We were both totally different in the way that we handle things. Uh the first few days Lisa after she passed away just wanted to lock herself in the house and not do anything. I I um did the opposite way. I got out and and dealt with some of the people who wanted to show their sympathy and went out and did the shopping and whatnot. Um, I suppose it was like I mentioned in one of the episodes 18, I think it was, where we both loved Jessica just as much where Lisa couldn't stand the side of seeing her passing away and I didn't want to be away from her. Uh, we had two different things but shared the same love. Craig, what have you learned about life from Jessica's passing? I learned a lot from Jessica, not just about life. Like, um, kids are so resilient and as an adult, we always tend to feel so sorry for ourselves. It's ridiculous. We'll have a cold or a flu or CO or something like that. And it's the end of the world. And we carry on. Um, watching Jess go through chemo, having her arm amputated, you know, tomorrow's another day. Let's get on with it. You'd be there playing a board game in uh and she'd be hooked up to the chemo and all of a sudden you'd see what was going to happen and you'd hold the bucket and she'd vomit out the bucket. You'd put it down and she'd have her move on the chessboard or the the game that you were playing. Yeah. There was no feeling sorry for themselves. I must admit the only thing she did hate was needles and that was a bit of an effort. That's understandable. Getting needles in. She end up getting a porticath which is a device put into a chest that just sits under the skin. It was an operation. So that made it a lot easier uh when she had to go in and get hooked up for chemo and and everything else. But yeah, she was I learned a lot from Jesse and I learned a lot from life and uh you know, I'm a great believer that you only live once and you got to make the most of it while you're alive. During that period, Craig, you were essentially fighting two battles at once. By day, you were surveilling some of Sydney's most serious criminals, and at night, you were sleeping in the hospital beside your daughter. How did you manage mentally and emotionally to juggle those two very distant worlds? The police work wasn't as bad as dealing with the family side of things. Yes, there's stress there. Um there was a lot of workload for what I was putting up with on the family side as well. But seeing your own kid in pain and your family in pain, that's another side of it as well. Dealing with it. I mean, you as I said before, you just have to stay in a routine of normality. There's no other way. If you start feeling sorry for yourself and start uh I don't know getting out of routine and normality, I think it affects you. I think if you sit around and think about things too much, that affects you. That's why I always like to keep busy. I think the balance the balance, even though it seems hard, the balance was good for me cuz it kept my mind going. And even when I was in hospital doing uh log sheets on what I'd just done that day, putting in my diary and and doing statements that kept me busy and kept my mind off things. the charity once I made up my mind I was going to do the charity organizing it you can imagine organizing on a budget of zero you know you you got friends and people who want to come and support you and do things and uh you've got all these other things happening and you're trying to work out logistically how you're going to do it not physically um so that occupied a lot of time and I think it balanced really well with with what we're going through yeah so having a cause and and a purpose helped I I imagine if definitely and that that goes back to about the the discipline and the dedication of of having an a purpose and then applying yourself to it. I think if you're down emotionally that's that's probably one of the best things to do is keep yourself busy with a purpose. Nonetheless, it must have been must have been some very very difficult challenging times. Did you ever feel that you would you going to buckle under the pressure? And if so, how did you push through? I didn't feel like I was going to buckle until later after Jessica's death when when all the police work was starting to get to me and I actually felt physically sick and and was physically sick. Going through the time when Jessica uh was alive and and through her passing um when I knew she was going to pass away, I'd set myself up mentally to handle that. Um, so I it wasn't then it was wasn't until later in life when things really struggled. I talked about physically being sick, but also you go into, you know, I don't talk about a lot, but you go into sleep deprivation with anxiety. And it's funny how the reality of jobs that you've done morphs into then dreams. And then the dreams are not true, but it morphs into these things that you keep having these reoccurring dreams of how it was true, but then it goes into the crooks involved and what happens to you and other people, which isn't nice. So, yeah, there's a funny effect that uh stress puts on you from the job and and how it happens. And that's why I don't talk about it a lot and I only did the podcast, you know, for certain reasons. Yeah. your podcast conviction, which we'll we'll talk about later. I thorough I thoroughly enjoyed. In the face of Jessica's illness, you decided to take action in a rather extraordinary way. While Jessica was still undergoing treatment, you embarked on the thousand kilometer ocean pedal from Avalon Beach. For those who don't know where that is, it's in New South Wales to Broad Beach in Queensland to raise money for the cancer cancer charities. You have already touched on what sparked that idea. Can you tell us about that first journey? Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Uh I hadn't never paddled a surfki before. So I had to learn how to paddle a surf ski, which sounds ridiculous. I had 9 months to do it from uh when I took off and the reason why I did it at that time was because I knew there was going to be 25,000 people on the beach when I arrived and I knew that that would be a great way to raise money. I sort of planned the event. The probably the toughest race in the world is the Machai. It's a 70 km ocean race in one day. So I thought if I can do that for 16 days, obviously not racing at the same pace that they go at, but if I can do that for 16 days, um I'll get a bit of publicity and especially in the surf life saving world, I'll get a bit of um mention through the crowds and hopefully raise some good dollars. And that's how I planned it. and we stayed either in surf clubs or in caravan parks. And I managed to have a support crew come with me the whole way. Mixture of family and friends. Saw some amazing things. I met some amazing people. Um, as you can imagine, out in the ocean, the things that you see, the turtles and the sharks and whales and wonderful on this first trip. Totally amazing. And even as scary was, you know, I think I was off Coffs Harour on day 10 and I was paddling way out near the Solitary Islands, which is probably about 5 to 10 km out to see a marine reserve, so it's just active with fish life, but end up having this massive big uh I'm guessing it was a white pointer under the ski for about 30 seconds. Uh so my ski 17 ft long in the old way, probably 5 m long. Now, the shark shark was as big as that and as wide as like a a VW car. They're quite wide, the sharks, when you get next to them. Quite an amazing experience. And but um I didn't feel threatened by it. Surf skis are very narrow, too. And they're quite easy to tip, aren't they? Oh, look, if it sniffed at me, I would have probably fallen off, but uh it it was just obviously intrigued. It was going through a big school of uh fish that was carving through small fish. So, it was obviously eating what was there. Uh it was probably just intrigued with what this large thing was going through the water. Mhm. And it disappeared as as soon as it came, but it's always in the back of your mind. And I mean, the sharks were there every day. But massive big sea turtle off uh Cresant Head that was amazing, too. It was just sunning itself on the top of the water. because my ski you make no noise. I actually got right onto it uh before it disappeared under and big old barnacle shells and things like that. And some of the people, you know, we it wasn't just a matter of paddling every night. We had functions where we're actually raising money as well. So we speak at Rotary clubs or or school events at night and things like that. Um so that was that was very important as well. There was one person there in particular in Foster. We pulled in there and we stayed in the caravan park for the night and the owner of the caravan park said, "Do you mind doing a guest speaking function and telling everyone what you're doing?" And so I did that to have the barbecue and one guy disappeared and came back and we put the bucket around and he threw $1,000 cash in the bucket. Wow. How generous. He he lived in a caravan. That's all he had. He worked as a um a boiler maker, a welder, and he collected scrap metal at work and that was what he collected and that was his cash money and he put the whole lot in the tin. Didn't know me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you know doing all these marathons you you find the truth about people in Australia and we are very generous people. But I'll tell you what, it was great day 16. And I was very happy to see the end. We had cyclones and a lot of bad swell, a lot of bad wind, but we eventually got there and raised the money. Wow. Wow. At the other end, I I didn't even know, but um in those days, there was an airline called Anset. I don't know if you remember those. And they actually donated a flight for my children and my my wife Lisa at the time. Um so they I didn't know they were going to be there, so they were there on the the day I arrived. How wonderful. What a special day. It was. It was. And you encountered cyclones as well. A cyclone. Yeah, we had cyclone Yali off Nambaka. Um, and then we had a second cyclone off Byron Bay. I left Byron Bay and it was a beautiful day. And there was a cyclone, but there was no news that it was going to come in land, but it ended up coming in. So, I think I was about 3 or 4 hours into the paddle. And uh the swell started getting massive to the point where it started knocking me off the ski all the time cuz the top of the swell was white capping and it rolled me. So the support crew had gone through to King's Cliff where I was meant to come in and they said, "You're not going to get in here. It's too big." So I end up just uh picking a random beach on the way and caught a massive wave which uh halfway through knocked me off. end up swimming back into shore and I end up over on the Tweed River and paddled the last the last part of the day down the toe river finishing at night. But they're the things you you can't plan for and yeah, that's extraordinary. Paddling your surf ski through not one but two cyclones. That's absolutely extraordinary. Were there moments where you actually feared for your life? Uh not really. I always had a support crew within sight on that first marathon. The second one I didn't. But the first one, that's the reason we had them there. Um, apart to obviously video things and keep a documentation of what I was doing, they were there for safety as well. Yeah. And after Jessica's passing, you set an even more ambitious goal, a a five 5,000 kilometer trip from the east from the west coast to the east coast of Australia by bike, foot, and surf ski with a goal of raising more funds to support children's cancer research. Now, that's a monumental challenge. Can you share one or two of the toughest moments that you faced on that on that across Australia expedition? I think you know people always ask you know what's one of the hardest experiences you had on the uh the last marathon which was around Australia designed it so it was going to be um quite different and rather go you know circumn I came inland from Port Headland um and there's a little town called Buloona which is um the most isolated town in Australia and it's in the middle of the great sandy desert so I thought I'll jump off the bike and and run through the Great Sandy Desert to Aluna. And the only track there is is a probably a a rough road that they use to check the gas line which runs through there for the mines and everything else. But apart from that, there's nothing there. I think we saw one person in two days. So it was 200 km from the turnoff to a Luna. Um yeah, running 100 km a day. I've done before with Oxfam Race, which is an off-road race, but through the desert. And luckily enough, the first part I could change the tires on my bike to have a thicker tire. Um, and I was able to ride a little bit to start with, but we end up getting puncture after puncture after puncture because you got this iron or rock all over the place as well, even though you're in sand. But that was probably the toughest I'd uh experienced. and you know the the fan getting into your shoes and it was just relentless and the heat of the day and I was lucky I had Tim my my son who um well you know was best mates with Jess so he was on my support crew at that time and I can remember him coming and grabbing the bike off me when I said look that's it for the bike I've just got to keep running it's hopeless um and he more or less stayed with me for a long part of the time talking me through it was funny the day. I had still 100 km to go to get to Aluna. I said to the boys, I said, "Uh, I'm going to get up at 3:00 in the morning and run this next bit. You guys have a bit of a sleep in. As long as, say by 7:00 I see you and I'll have breakfast, I'll take enough food with me in a backpack to last." And I'd heard the stories of all the wild dogs out in this area and they baiting them and how much strife they were giving people in the area. And uh it must have been about 4:30 in the morning. I was by myself and you know in the desert there's not many big trees around you can climb up but I had this feeling that these dogs were following me. I never saw them but I had this feeling and it actually got into my mind and I picked up this massive stick and I ran the rest of the time with this massive stick until the guys came but I did pass signs there that beware wild dogs baiting in progress. I still to this day believe that they were there. They just didn't attack me. But it was his weirdest horrible feeling when I was at my low point. Going on to one of the other memorable moments was paddling up uh the east coast of Australia near Harvey Bay in Queensland and coming across a pot of um jongs which you know for any Americans or whatever sea cows um you don't often see them. Well I don't because they're not down as low as us. And it was the most unexpected thing. When I first saw them I thought oh my god what's this? Is it a whale? Is it a shark? Is it What is it? And there was a whole there's probably 15 with babies. Yeah. And I end up um above one very large uh adult jong which wasn't intimidated by me whatsoever. And I probably sat behind it for two or three minutes and it was just so majestic with the tail coming up and down. You can see how in the old days they referred them to the the mermaid. Yes. Well, that was amazing because they're quite elusive. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I thought I was totally blown away and it was probably one of my favorite days of paddling. Imagine. So, traveling across Australia in those varied landscapes and sea and rivers and and um and on the ground as well from eastern eastern Australia, Western Australia to eastern Australia. You must have encountered incredible wildlife. You just mentioned yongs and you've touched on sharks and turtles. Do you have any memorable runins with other animals that you like like to describe? Well, on the second one across I had obviously the seals to start with. There was plenty of emus and camels. I mean, we went through uh the null and and if you come up from Gibson so in Western Australia, Norman then across you'd think it's very boring, but it's not. We had this magical time where a lot of the place had flooded and the roads were actually covered in red dust. But behind the roads, if you actually went to explore, there was these massive inland lakes and it was just full of bird life. It's like you see in those documentaries where you walk through and it's probably only knee deep of water, but the thing is just full of pelicans and everything else that come in. Whether there's food there or not, I don't know. But these amazing things that you never see. And that was like the third one in Lake Argo with crocodiles and these huge big stalks going across these lily pads. I talk about it in my podcast where we get lost in the top end of the or river at the end of the uh lake argaly which is was quite fascinating and you know being surrounded by thousands and thousands of crocodiles in this in this area. So yeah, you come across everything. You know, a massive sea snake when I paddle down through broom to 80 mile beach, which were out near the pearl farms where they're just big boys and mets and I'm guessing the the big sea snakes just rest up on the the nets. But uh Wow. Yeah, there's some fascinating things you see. Yeah. And I guess being close to the water on on the surf ski and walking and cycling, it's not fast like a car or noisy like a vehicle. So you would have had the benefit of actually not frightening the animals away and seeing them really closely. You do you see everything. I think the third marathon as well, we had a lot of flooding up in Queensland. So we had a lot of snakes, live snakes coming across the road when I was cycling. That was quite funny. I thought, "Ah, there's one. That's all right." When you start seeing more and more and more and more. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to fall off your bike. No. We have an amazing country and we uh you know it's a great way to see the country even though it's hard to to get around on bike paddling and running but uh you definitely see a lot more than just in a car. Looking back on all your endurance challenges, what have you learned from pushing your mind and body to such extremes for a cause? Well, I never thought I'd be able to do it. Well, I I always believed in myself, but I never thought I'd be able to be a marathon person. I was always at school in sport. thought I was a sprinter and and never even dreamt about doing anything more than 400 m. Um I don't even know what made me well I do know what made me do the first marathon. It was Jessica. Uh but to think about actually pushing myself that far, I'm glad I did it. I always backed myself. I remember um doing a guest speaking function down in the bottom of Victoria at a Rotary Club and and a guy got up and asked me a question. And she said, "What would happen if you got knocked off your bike and you couldn't finish it?" And I said, "Well, I would finish it. It might not be in the right time, but I would finish it." I think that's the attitude you got to have about completing things. Yeah. Letting I say not not everyone's the same. You know, there's there's a guy that rode around Australia in I think no, was it 34 days? He's a professional cyclist, which is unbelievable if you think around ring road one in 34 days. So there's people that are way more fitter than me and can do it a lot probably quicker. Um I'm just a father at the end of the day that had a purpose. Let's now switch to to another fascinating and challenging part of your life, your covert police work. You spent nearly 24 years in the New South Wales Police Force and in 1997 you joined an elite covert task force. In fact, you are one of the the biggest undercover operations in Australian history, gathering intelligence on crime syndicates and corrupt officers, all while keeping your work secret from your fellow police officers and friends and family. What was it like living that covert life? It was hard. um especially with knowing that at some stage there was going to be police corruption and I might know some of the police involved which happened and then dealing with that at the end of the day through courts and everything else. So that was that was a real hard part and I think that's what uh end up throwing me over the line about getting out with the stress. We were not what they call the true undercover police. Undercover police are ones who infiltrate. Uh they live the life of the criminals. they they join biker gangs etc. We still have different identities. So I wasn't myself. I've got credit cards, driver's license, all that in a different name in case something happens. We often don't get involved with criminals. We we might be uh with them in certain ways but we are not becoming associated with them as friends and things like that. So we are at a at a um a distance from them. It is hard though when you can't tell your your wife or partner what you're doing or where you're going or if you haven't turned up for 4 days. You know, in one of the jobs we did, we had to disappear to Melbourne for a long time. And I think, you know, we didn't even plan for it. I was in one set of clothes for 4 days, no toothbrush, no nothing. And we were non-stop. The guys were uh going to and fro delivering drugs up. This is just before the underbelly, the Carl Williamson hits were happening. and one particular group didn't want to um do their labs down in in Victoria because of that reason. So, you got these things where you know you're living a different life and you can't tell your partner. We were fortunate enough that uh the police commissioner pulled a lot of our partners and wives in and explained that there were certain jobs we were doing um and we're doing it for the good of the service and obviously the general public and that there were times that we wouldn't be able to discuss things with our partners and to understand and so that helped a lot. Amazing. Over the course of your career, Craig, you you helped take down some notorious criminals. For example, you led the investigation that caught the Northshore rapist Graham Kay and you infiltrated major drug networks. Interestingly, in your podcast, Conviction, you've mentioned that some of these criminals were actually likable or admirable in certain ways that they they weren't 100% evil. Can you talk about that? I mean, they're doing a business perhaps that they grew up understanding. sometimes their parents were in that field as well or they were easily influenced and and you can see even the corrupt police you know you can back in my day the pay wasn't good and uh rather than get a second job a lot of them would be corrupt and and take bribes a lot of the crooks that I dealt with especially in the organized crime syndicates they were characters um if you think about it the general public shouldn't be threatened by them because they don't go out to kill people. They go about business and there's there's more killings within gangs within themselves than actually within just the general public. And I always treated them no different to how I treat anyone. So when it came to the time of arrest or or whatever, I mean, Richard Harry Harris, he was a strength and conditioning trainer. He was a likable bloke. He was a big fell. Um, he'd grown up in England, I guess, on the wrong side. I had to arrest him. Um, I knew him backwards cuz we'd been watching him and surveilling him and listening to him for over a year and a half. When I arrested him, you know, the boss said, "We're going to have the SWAT team cuz he got guns and everything else." And I said, "I'd rather just knock on his door and speak with him. I think I can do it that way. It's the easiest way." And that's what I did. Um, and we got on like a house on fire to the point where when I was uh he was getting his sentencing, he wanted to do a charity boxing gig when he got out for kids with cancer. So, I mean, they're no different to any of us. They just have a different business uh schedule, you might say. I mean, someone like uh Graeme Kay is a different kettle of fish. He's evil. There's no doubt about it. um what he did and and his demeanor and everything. He's just a predator, rapist. Yeah. And look, to be honest, we felt like throttling him every day, and that's all we wanted to do. He was just a a terrible predator. Um and watching him go and pray on women every day, all you know, every afternoon was it was hard to watch. Um but anyway, he got his time in. How satisfying that must have been when he was finally arrested. It was extremely satisfying. Uh it was it was a massive job that one. So, but I mean a lot of them are once you get to that point where you've got enough evidence and things happen, it's very satisfying. And I don't think a lot of the guys hold grudges against you, especially when they're guilty. You know, all the ones that I've mentioned have been through court. They've they've done their time. They've been guilty. They probably get away with a lot more than what they get caught for. Uh and they understand that. So yeah, I don't really feel threatened. I mean, you know, even though you've been you share your story in your own podcast, Conviction and and sharing it now on the Kugi Heroes podcast and other media, do you don't feel that would ever place you at risk? Um, look, if it does, I'm not perturbed about it. Um, there's reasons for that as well. So, you know, I I don't think anyone would have it's all been through the public system. It's all all out there. It's been through the courts. Um probably a lot of them who have done things and been convicted. You know, there's one of the ex corrupt police that I know of. He's actually working with the police now at the academy telling people why he was corrupt and not to do it and how stupid he was. So, he's turned his life around from being corrupt and uh now it's fisting. On a lighter note, you shared a story in your conviction podcast about the time you and your partner were almost caught by some criminals that you you were surveilling but were saved by a kangaroo. Can you tell us about that story? We we were following a guy who had been given um pseudoean which is a precursor to make speed and they had a uh property up near Straoud in the north coast just past in Newcastle and we we didn't know where they were going or what they were doing. All we knew that he picked up the buckets of pseudo and he was the cook and he was going away to a unknown location. We had minimal crew. So we when we started this special crime unit, I think there was only nine of us. So at the at the time that he left with the gear, I think there was only five of us to take him up and and do the job and follow him and everything like that, which is very hard, especially in a country area. But he ended up going into a property and we watched from a distance through binoculars that he went to the the farm and he picked up a caravan that was hitched onto his car and then it went down a track and then it went through a valley. So myself and my partner got on foot and ran up through the creek bed to see where it was going and this is this was going to be the lab. We didn't know at this stage but this is where the drug cook was going to happen. So, we actually pinpointed where the location was. And on the way back, the actual friend who owned the property was coming along with his dog to go out to the caravan. And we ducked down in the in the creek bed. And all of a sudden, the dogs obviously smelt us and started going off and starting heading towards us. And and the guy's just yelling out, "Shut up, you stupid dog. It's just a kangaroo." and myself and my partner hiding behind those rocks think this dog is going to come and what are we going to say and what are we going to do but luckily the dog went back with the owner and they went off and you know we escaped down the creek bed that was lucky indeed so dealing dealing with criminals corruption and living on the edge must have given you quite a unique experience what did your years of working covertly teach you about humans and about and about yourself. Wow. Well, you see a lot that you don't want to see. That's for sure. There's certain jobs that I did covertly. Look, I'm not going to mention what they were, but some were horrific with what happens in closed doors when you have listening devices and cameras and things set up. And um it it shows you another perspective of life with how people live their lives. Um, as I said, you can never judge a book by its cover. We were just talking about it before. Some of the crooks are probably the hardest ones. Deep down, they're they're just softies and they've got a a wife and children. They go home to a normal life. And half the time, the spouse might be sort of suspicious of what's going on, but don't doesn't ask any questions. And they just lead a normal life. And on weekends, they do their normal thing and go to kids sport and cheer on the kids and take them to the movies. And then uh the crime side comes in and they're a different person. So it's a weird experience. It could be. So often the spouse is in the innocent party and unaware of the criminal activities that their their their partner is undergoing. I couldn't say all the time, but uh definitely some. Yeah, definitely some. Were there any personal lessons you gained from this in intense period of your life? I think you learned lessons all the way through your life. I'm still learning now. I'm 61 and I'm not in the in the job, but I I learn off people all the time. That's just one of those things. And going through the police, you learn when you're in uniform, you learn different things when you're working undercover and covertly. Um, and then through the sports, you learn things about people as well. I always say, you know, when I do I used to do a lot of coaching and I always say to the the players, if you can take 1% of what I teach you, well, I've done my job because if every session you have a new coach or a new spot coach or someone that comes in and teaches you something, you can be so well educated and you can learn that little bit off every person. Not everyone does things right and not everyone's exactly right. But if you can take a small bit that you like from something or someone, it sort of builds the person that you want to be or you become. Continual learning. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So Craig, what does your life look like now? What are you doing? What are you doing currently? Um, unfortunately I end up splitting from my wife six years ago and uh I started a new life I suppose. It was 2 months after I split up with her. I got diagnosed with cancer. I got Merkel cell carinoma which was a tumor growing under my funnily enough right arm like Jessica. It was 20 years to the day. So I had five years of treatment uh there. Radiation uh was the biggest one to to try and get rid of the tumor. During that time I uh picked up a job just in Sydney as a um part-time or full-time caretaker and then part-time. Now I'm just retired and again I just got over uh the last five years of cancer treatment and then at Christmas time I had uh some new cancer in my head. I just had surgery to both sides of my head. Got over that and uh only four or five weeks ago I got diagnosed with stage three cancer with a melanoma. So I've uh I'm still suffering now. I've just had all the lymph nodes taken out of both sides and I've been cut up through the back. I've delayed um amunotherapy because I'm actually sitting on the beautiful Lord How Island as we speak. I'm over here at a mate's resort just as an offseason caretaker helping him out. So yeah, what what holds out, I don't know. Uh I've got a year of immunotherapy. I've been approached uh this is how my podcast came out by a guy in the TV industry saying he read a book. I I wrote a book some time ago it was probably a memoir more than a book and it got turned into a book and he read it and called me up and said you know would you like to turn your story into a TV series and I said uh why not? At that stage, I had the cancer and my two younger kids, Claire and uh Blake, who were born after Jessica passed away. Didn't really know the full story. They heard about their sister, but they never knew me as a policeman and never knew the whole story. So, I thought, why not? And uh the boys wanted to do a podcast first, which we did, Conviction, the Craig Guz story. Highly recommend. And uh yeah, thank you. that was uh we all we did was put it out onto our Facebook sites. We've got no media backing and we managed to get top 10% shared globally. So, it's gone through 37 countries chartable in six countries. Um and yeah, it's done really well and we're hoping that it does better. And um as of next week, we've we've got a group of uh very wellrespected Australian actors and directors and writers who are going to start the writer room. Uh so that's going to take a bit of my time and again I'm looking forward to that cuz that's going to take time away from me thinking about my treatment and everything else. I'm very sorry to hear about your ongoing cancer. Is there anything from Jessica's experience with cancer that has given you hope or inspiration to help you manage your own cancer? Oh, definitely. I I don't feel sorry for myself and I always say to people, give me no sympathy, please. Just treat me as normal. And that's all I ask for. I just want to uh do the same as what we did with her. Keep keep routine and keep normality and keep smiling. Craig, finally, is there any call of action you would like to ask the audience? Is there any way we can perhaps support the the your new venture, the the documentary series or or anything else? Yeah, look, um firstly getting just getting involved in something if if you feel as though you want to get involved in something getting involved, help others. I always say the greatest gift you can give is to a person you don't know. And I always found, you know, when I'd hand over the check for a million dollars or whatever it was, it was the best part of the marathon. It wasn't any of the experiences I came. It was knowing where this money was going and where it had come from. It come from, you know, $5 out of someone's wallet or $10 or $1,000. It was coming from the generosity of the Australian people. Um, what can people do? Look, I', you know, if people want to listen to the podcast and and if they like it, put a great review. We are trying to get a sponsor at the moment for a for the podcast to try and actually uh get more funding for the writer room and and to produce this TV series. So, if you like the actual podcast and you'd love to see it on screen, um we do have a position for someone who wants to back the the podcast uh knowing full well that hopefully it's going to be a uh on the screen and and do well. It's great. And as I said, I've got Jake Ryan, who is an Australian actor, used to be on Home and Away as Robo. He he fell in love with the podcast and straight away said, "Look, I'd love to play you if this comes through." And since then, we've had Jeremy Lindseay Taylor, who is a massive uh face in the Australian industry, and he just won best director in one of the short films overseas. So, Luke McKenzie, another, you know, really good person. So yeah, we're hopefully it's going to kick off well. I certainly hope so. Craig, Craig, if there are if there are any sponsors who happen to be listening to this this podcast, how can they contact you? Your they can contact us through the three ring circus production website which if they go on to the podcast, it'll be on there. They can get in touch with Doug Gaski who's on the bottom there which is fine. Wonderful. Craig Guz, it really has been an honor listening hearing your story. Thank you very much for sharing it with Kugi Heroes. Thanks, Natalie. Much appreciated. [Music] Thank you for listening to this episode of Kudi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lily for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. [Music] If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kugiheroes and the stories we share, head to kugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a taxdeductible donation. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time. [Music]
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The criminals Craig arrested over twenty years were not one-dimensional evil but ordinary people with families, jobs, and weekends spent at kids' sports, though they operated in a different business; he treated them with the same respect he would anyone else.
This conversation includes from police work to fatherhood in crisis, jessica's diagnosis arrives with the special crime unit posting, balancing hospital shifts with undercover operations, jessica's arm amputation and the decision to act, paddling 1,000 kilometres from avalon to broad beach and jessica asks for one more marathon before she dies.
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