Ben Drysdale
Ben found his songwriting and social justice work came from the same place: a need to process trauma and restore agency to others.
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Ben Drysdale traces his musical life to family road trips listening to Cat Stevens, though his real education came from the records he brought home himself. After two decades playing in bands, he only recently released music under his own name, finally believing he was worthy enough as a musician to stand alone. What he discovered along the way is that his songwriting and his decade-long work running a social justice theater company come from the same place: the conviction that when people share stories about difficult times and good times, it creates healing for whole communities, not just the person telling the story.
Diagnosed with ADHD at 41, Ben found relief in finally understanding decades of struggle that had made him feel like a bad person. But learning about rejection-sensitive dysphoria forced a harder reckoning: looking back at friendships and relationships he thought he had handled rightly and asking whether they had actually wronged him at all. Music became his form of self-therapy long before the diagnosis, from listening to Nirvana as a teenager through writing his first song only after a long-distance relationship ended. Over time, he moved from needing deep trauma or elation to write one or two songs a year, to being able to create from a simple idea or a lyric in his phone. Now he does not need fame, but he does need enough people who care about him enough to support him financially so he can spend his entire life making music and having conversations about why it matters. He is a songwriter, singer, dad, and person with ADHD, and there is a lot of fun and healing to be had and shared in holding all of those things together.
“In order for people to transform anybody's life in any way, they need to be able to trust you and they won't trust you if you're not being vulnerable with them in some way, or showing them that they're safe to engage with you.”
“I think that the entire world is controlled by trauma, whether it's big T trauma or little t trauma, that everybody, whoever you are, you've got some moment in your life where something happened to you and your assumption that you were safe and looked after in the world was taken away.”
“I learned a lot about things like rejection-sensitive dysphoria, which, as people with ADHD, we have this like visceral emotional and physical response to when we perceive that we're being rejected in some way, that other people don't understand.”
The hero, today
Ben found relief in his ADHD diagnosis at 41 because it gave him a way to understand decades of struggle that had made him feel like he was a bad person, when the issue was neurological, not spiritual. Learning about rejection-sensitive dysphoria meant having to look back on friendships and relationships he thought he had handled rightly and ask whether they had actually wronged him at all, which he describes as a much harder pill to swallow than the diagnosis itself. Ben's work in theater and music comes from the same place: the belief that when people share stories about difficult times and good times, it creates catharsis and healing for the community, not just the person telling the story. Ben moved from needing to reach a point of emotional extremity to write a song, to being able to create from a simple idea or a lyric in his phone, which he describes as a freedom that has opened up to him over time. Ben does not need fame but does need a critical mass of people who care about him enough to support him financially, so he can spend his entire life making music and having conversations about why it matters.
Yes. Ben Drysdale is a real person who shared their own story in their own words. Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit that shares first-person stories of overcoming adversity, told with the person's consent.
Kintsugi Heroes, a registered Australian not-for-profit. Every story is shared with the hero's own consent and reviewed under Kintsugi Heroes' trauma-informed content standard before it goes public.
Ben found relief in his ADHD diagnosis at 41 because it gave him a way to understand decades of struggle that had made him feel like he was a bad person, when the issue was neurological, not spiritual.
Learning about rejection-sensitive dysphoria meant having to look back on friendships and relationships he thought he had handled rightly and ask whether they had actually wronged him at all, which he describes as a much harder pill to swallow than the diagnosis itself.
Ben's work in theater and music comes from the same place: the belief that when people share stories about difficult times and good times, it creates catharsis and healing for the community, not just the person telling the story.
John Milham (Host) · 00:00
Kintsugi Heroes acknowledges funding that was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at cbf.org.au. Welcome back to Kintsugi Heroes, helping people tell the stories they need to share so you can find the stories that you need to hear. In this episode, John Milham sits down with Ben Drysdale, a musician whose journey through adversity has shaped his art and community work. Diagnosed with ADHD at 41, Ben found a sense of relief and a framework for understanding his past struggles, including rejection-sensitive dysphoria. His passion for music started in early childhood and evolved through emotional highs and lows, leading him to use songwriting as a form of self-expression and a tool for healing. Ben's story is one of resilience, creativity, and a deep commitment to helping others through the power of art and storytelling. Enjoy this one with Ben Drysdale.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 01:13
So welcome back, uh, Kintsugi listeners, to another conversation, a Kintsugi Heroes conversation, Stories That Matter. And I'm particularly, uh, excited to have this conversation. A couple of months ago, I attended a conference and in that conference, there was some workshops around mental health and the process, you know, and trauma and understanding how to deal with that through different ways. One of the workshop presentations was my guest today, Ben Drozdal. And then, uh, Ben gave us a, um, a workshop on music and creativity and art as a way of managing an experience. And then Ben was part of the closing ceremony where he delivered a version of his new single, Listen Now, I think, which was an awesome performance. So I'm particularly chuffed to welcome Ben Drysdale to the podcast. Thank you, Ben.
John Milham (Host) · 02:16
Thanks for having me, mate.
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Ben moved from needing to reach a point of emotional extremity to write a song, to being able to create from a simple idea or a lyric in his phone, which he describes as a freedom that has opened up to him over time.
This conversation includes cat stevens on the coast, twenty years in, finally solo, the catharsis of songwriting, theater work and music collide, trauma shapes the entire world and vulnerability as the only door.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 02:19
Uh, it's my pleasure. Uh, today, uh, we're going to talk a little bit about what, uh, you presented at the conference, hopefully, and, and share some insights. But let me, uh, clearly, I, you know, I read in the bio, 2004, you know, you were in bands and playing, you know, that you've been playing music your whole life. Where does the music in you come from?
John Milham (Host) · 02:44
Mate, uh, I mean, I think, you know, everybody's got the— I mean, when you're my age, it's the tapes or the records or the CDs that, uh, you used to listen to with your family. Uh, for me, it was road trips down to the coast listening to Cat Stevens. And, uh, I think—
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 03:05
oh wow, T for the Tillerman.
John Milham (Host) · 03:08
Uh, we were doing the best of, uh, so I think Tea for the Tillman was on there, but it wasn't the— it wasn't that album. Um, and I think I've always— I've always loved music, and my parents always were keen to get me exposed to it, even though our own record collection was largely classical music with— I think there was like one Eagles record Cat Stevens record, a Michael Jackson record, and the rest was all classical music until I started bringing my own music into the household. But, um, yeah, I mean, I think in terms of, in terms of the stuff, the kind of the, the folky side of stuff that I've kind of done solo all throughout the last couple of decades while my bands have been a little bit more A little bit less folky, sometimes a little bit more funky, a bit of reggae, a bit of blues. Um, and yeah, so I'm only just now 20 years into it, kind of releasing stuff under my own name for the first time, and kind of, um, I guess just coming around to the fact that perhaps I'm talented and worthy enough as a musician and a songwriter without having to have, uh, you know, other people to make me look good.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 04:31
Yeah, wow, that sounds like an amazing step into that whole, you know, like, uh, you know, attaching sort of worth, your worth journey to a solo career. What are you hoping, like, you know, what are you hoping about a music career? Because you've, you've got, you know, like, I love the idea, you know, you real cutting-edge stuff, like bringing, you know, You know, that's so much, um, you know, both creativity and community connection involved in, say, the theater. You're working with people who, you know, connecting out of their, their challenge, right? Uh, or disability. But, um, what are you hoping for, right? Is, is like, you know, what do you want to get out of music?
John Milham (Host) · 05:13
Uh, So there's a few different questions in there. I mean, firstly, I think what I'm, what I get out of music is, you know, a number of things. Personally, it's very, uh, it's a cathartic thing for me, especially, you know, when writing songs that, uh, address a personal experience that's been challenging. It's a way of processing my own thoughts and feelings on it. That gets them outside of me and gives me a channel to express them. And the act of performing those songs and putting that emotion behind those songs, whether it's, you know, whether it's the emotion that inspired the original song or whether it's something I'm dealing with today that can channel through a song that I wrote 10 years ago. That's all extremely cathartic. And so that's sort of a very selfish side of what I get out of it. And, and, but I guess, you know, I, I can, I can get that out of it whether I ever, you know, make a buck off it or not. Um, but I, I think what I'm, I'm really at a point where, uh, what I'm realizing is that I've always kept these kind of like the music side and the social justice and community side, uh, beautiful thing is in my head is these two separate things that, um, exist independently of each other. And what I've sort of realized in the last little while, uh, since, you know, doing it, a course about sort of how musicians kind of need to market themselves in this social media age is like You know, you can't just be a musician. You've got to be a content creator as well. And through that process of, you know, no one's going to be interested in your music unless they're interested in you and your story. And really looking at what my story is and why I do what I do. And realizing that it's all, you know, the reason I've been running a social justice theater company. For 10 years is the same reason that I play music, um, for myself, or, or, or what that does for other people. And that, um, you know, storytelling about, about the bad times or the good times, um, is a way for the collective experience, whether that's, you know, the broader collective experience or the collective experience of, um, marginalised groups or people who have experienced mental health challenges or hardships in some ways, um, is, is a, is a, you know, a path to catharsis and healing for people, um, as a community, you know, whether it's the wider community or small communities. And, um, that, that I want to you know, perhaps take some of the community work that we've done in this, in the theater space into the music space. And, um, I'm really interested in looking for opportunities to, um, you know, work with various communities and, uh, and create music or facilitate them to create music. Um, yeah, I'm really interested in that kind of Teaching songwriting to non-songwriters. And because I guess that's kind of what we, that's what we largely do in the theatre company. Like most of the groups we work with are not people with acting experience, but we work with them to create theatre pieces around their, you know, shared experiences about things that they want to say and what topics that they want to, you know, advocate about. I think that there's a lot of, there's a huge demand and need for like a musical version of that in the world as well. I've just got to find the way to fund it. So if you've got any tools, mate, let me know.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 09:33
Mate, well, you know, not-for-profit world, you know, if we can crack that, right, we'd be geniuses, right? They'd beat up after our door. It's interesting because there's that whole element that you're like, it's fascinating, the power of storytelling. Of course, on Kintsugi, we believe that as well. That's why we're having this conversation, right? Storytelling has power both for the people involved in the telling and sharing of the story, but also for the greater world, right? Putting that story out there has impact beyond our impact, our conversation. I wonder, if that's not also true, like music songs, right? Because, you know, you're talking about the process of helping people share their story through the channel of music and theater, but you also have your own story, right? So how important is balancing that? When you talked about your catharsis by, you know, either through the emotion of your current song or a previous song. Is that, you know, is it about having to create? Is that the way you balance yourself? Is that the important skill that you possess to put that out? Or is it just happens to work for you? Right. And you have the talent.
John Milham (Host) · 10:48
I do feel like, you know, you know, the, the answer, there's more than one answer to your earlier question about why I sort of ended up where I ended up. It's ultimately that, like, I would be, I would, I'd be doing it because I have to do it, um, whether I was trying to make any career out of it or not. Like, it's, you know, there's a huge personal benefit when you, when you share a piece of yourself like that and you see it connect with people and you, uh, you watch them feel, um, and it makes you feel like you're doing something good for the world, um, and I think that's, you know, and then when you— so that's, that's sort of the more live element. And then, you know, like you said, like, you know, we can sit here and we can record this conversation and we can hope that that thing goes out, um, same with recording a song, that you, you know, once it's out there, you hope that, um, then it's, it's making making a difference somewhere out there as well, whether that— whether it's— whether it's making someone, you know, feel validated about how shit they feel that day, or whether it's making them, you know, pumping them up.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 12:05
Um, it's amazing stuff. Uh, you know, you're, uh, like, I loved, um, listening to you, the song you shared with the conference, but— and then subsequently on Spotify. What do you hope your songs do in the world?
John Milham (Host) · 12:23
You know, this is, this has been a thing that I'm kind of like trying to ask myself while I, while I try and sort of become, you know, become more of a self-made musician rather than someone who was just sitting there hoping, waiting for some record label to do something or some manager or something. You know, the fact that I have these sort of two sides to my artistic career, the theater and the music, and that for some reason I've kept this social justice side completely separate from the music side while constantly writing songs about mental health and not really clicking that there was this huge kind of like crossover between the two. And, and that I just sort of had this epiphany that like I, I think that the entire world is controlled by trauma, whether it's, you know, big T trauma or little t trauma, that everybody, whoever you are, you've, you've got some moment in your life where, um, something happened to you and your assumption that you were safe and looked after in the world was taken away by, you know, whether, whether, whether it's something massive or whether it's the fact that some kid knocked you over and stole your sandwich or, um, anything like that. And that's, um, when people experience trauma or in any way that they're kind of— they're stripped of a number of things that they, that they then spend the rest of their life trying to get back to varying degrees of success. And they're stripped of energy, they're stripped of innocence, they're stripped of agency, they're stripped of power, um, and safety, uh, and that, you know, depending on what it is, whatever that thing is that's happened to you, um, you know, people spend the rest of their lives trying to get that back in one way or another, whether that's through career, fitness, creativity, I'm sharing more, like through my content, I'm sharing more bits and pieces of my own mental health struggles and the strategies, the basic strategies that I can try and use on a day-to-day basis to get through them. And then just putting my song behind it and put, you know, stuff like that. As a way of connecting with people and sharing a bit more of myself with people that way. Trying to give people a sense, myself and people, a sense of power by, you know, in the case of Listen Now, I wrote that song about helping a mate through, you know, some pretty bad mental health stuff. So I'm using that as an opportunity to I'm donating 50% of Bandcamp sales of that to mental health charities. You know, that's, that's giving my sense a sense of power to do something outside of myself and offering, you know, people who might be interested in my music a way that like, you know, you can support me and you can support a good cause at the same time. And just trying to have more non-judgmental dialogue, both through content on stage, through speaking opportunities, um, podcasting opportunities, uh, to, you know, I guess try and create a greater sense of safety for myself and for anybody who is having trouble coming, you know, coming back from all of those things.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 16:14
Um, So just with, with, like, it's interesting because you talked about social justice and the bigger picture, right? And also, you know, like, you know, the, the level of trauma across both, you know, our community and even greater, right, in the world, right? And yet the process you're using to address that is a very personal one, right? It comes from your touching your circumstance and your emotions, right? And then And then, you know, you express that and by proxy other people seem to have a reaction to it. It touches them as well. And so it's, how do you reconcile the idea that I can change the world by touching and healing my own situation through the, you know, songwriting and singing and performance?
John Milham (Host) · 17:09
Well, I think, you know, I guess the other thing that you lose when you experience trauma of some form is a sense of trust. And I'll have to put that into this thing. And I think that, um, in order for people to transform anybody's life in any way, they need to, they need to be able to trust you and they, They won't trust— they won't trust you if you're not being vulnerable with them in some way, or showing, showing them that they're safe to engage with you. Um, and so I think, you know, you've got to be honest and, and vulnerable when you're asking for anybody to engage with you in any way. And, you know, I've definitely found that in, um, you know, it's, it's kind of like, I, I only got diagnosed at the age of 41, but I've been working in this space for a long time. And, um, my, you know, I've been open about the fact that I've had mental health challenges throughout that whole time, but I never had a diagnosis and I was never like Well, I always say that like, you know, I've had a lot of anxiety, anxiety and depression, but I knew people who were clinically diagnosed and I was looking at the difference between me and them and going, well, I'm not, I'm not that depressed or I'm not that anxious. So this must just be the normal level of anxious and depressed. And it turns out that the normal level is none. And that, that was all symptomatic of my ADHD. But, you know, having— so now I've got a different way to frame the way I think about myself and the way I think about the world. Um, but prior to that, I still needed to be vulnerable. I still needed to, um, you know, be open and honest in order to earn the trust of any of the people that I've worked with. Previously, you know, especially, especially if you're like, you know, an arts kid walking into a room full of soldiers, um, and asking them to be vulnerable with you. You can't do that without, without any kind of, um, yeah, you know, vulnerability and honesty yourself.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 19:38
Yeah, you're putting it on the line. What, what do you think, um, has changed as a result of, say, diagnosis? Do you think that's, uh, has that allowed you? Has that empowered you or has that sort of, you know, given you thought for, uh, of, of some sort of restriction?
John Milham (Host) · 19:56
Yeah. Uh, oh, it's a rollercoaster for me. Like I think for me it's been largely positive. Um, you know, I think when people get a diagnosis, the initial go-tos are either shame or relief. Yeah, um, there's a huge range in amongst that, but you know, you'll, you'll go one way or another or back and forth between them. But I think they're kind of like the main, the two main kind of ends of the spectrum when someone gets a diagnosis. And for me, it was much more relief. It was like, oh, Finally, okay, now I can understand. I can frame my own understanding of myself and why I've been struggling so long and what, and all these things that made me feel that I was maybe just a horrible person or that these things that I struggled, that made either a horrible person or a useless person or a crap person or that there was something deeply wrong with my soul, or just is, is a, is an experience that many people will relate to me with because they've experienced the same thing. And it's, it's neurological. It's not, it's not my soul. It's the little bits of matter and the exact way in which they're arranged within my brain. Um, so, you know, largely it was a relief. The, you know, specifically with ADHD, there's, um, you know, I learned a lot as I, as I, as I got the diagnosis, um, about things like rejection-sensitive dysphoria, which, you know, we, as people with ADHD, we, we, we have this like visceral emotional and physical response to when we perceive that we're being rejected in some way, um, that other people don't understand. And like, I, I look back on, uh, you know, so many friendships and relationships, um, that might have broken down that I felt completely validated in the way that I handled myself in that because my percei— my perception of what was going on was that, you know, these people had wronged me in some way and that ultimately to look back on all that and go, well, fuck, like, actually, maybe they didn't and it was all in my head. Uh, that, that side of things been a much tougher pill to swallow. And, um, I guess an interesting thing to carry and navigate through, you know, my current relationship with my wife, who's, who's borne the brunt, brunt of my RSD a number of times and felt completely at a loss as to what, how to come out of some situation. And, um, you know, it's great because it gives me a framework to look at it and, uh, a thing to ask myself every time I'm getting a feeling like that. It's like, Is this, is this a valid response?
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 23:25
Yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 23:25
Or is this the RSD?
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 23:27
What's the evidence for me feeling I'm being rejected, right?
John Milham (Host) · 23:31
Yeah. Or is it some combination of the two?
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 23:34
Um, so yeah, I mean, it's interesting choice, interesting challenge to choose a career where, you know, the feedback is visceral and available, daily available. Yeah, right. And you invite people to review you, right? Which is like, oh my goodness, that's a tough gig.
John Milham (Host) · 23:57
I'm an idiot. Not at all. Unfortunately, I'd embedded this career choice long before I knew that I had this problem.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 24:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that, um, You know, you talked about how, um, cathartic it was to express the emotions that come out in the song. Is that what, you know, was this you finding a way to deal with, you know, your challenges, you know, your mental health challenges and so on before you, you know, before diagnosis? And, or what did help? What else was involved in managing this?
John Milham (Host) · 24:35
Yeah, I think it's been one of my forms of self-therapy.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 24:40
My whole life.
John Milham (Host) · 24:41
Not, you know, the same way like jumping around, thrashing about, listening to Nirvana, um, when I was a kid to express my freaking teen spirit. Yeah, you know, at a time when, you know, being a teenager is a rough thing. Like, like, it's, it's so rough just in the most well off scenarios just because everybody's going through immense mental strain trying to figure out who they are and learn how to be in the world and will often bring each other down to, um, get up. Like, let alone what it's like in a, you know, in a less privileged, um, yeah, scenario. Uh, but yeah, I mean, I think For me, listening to music was a huge way of getting through, um, difficult emotional and mental times. I, I played and played in bands all through like school and high school, but I— and I was like a campfire, you know, cover song. Like, you see my Cat Stevens and my John Lennon and the Counting Crows. And, um, I didn't actually start writing my own songs until I was over 20 and already studying, um, over in Canada. Like, I did my first gigs, uh, as a singer-songwriter at open mics, uh, yeah, in Canada. And I'd been in this relationship. The first song I ever wrote was like, I'd been in this relationship for like sort of 4 years, uh, 2 years of being in the relationship. Then I was like, you know, I was part of a bit of a toxic scene here and we, like, I needed to get out of it and I moved down to Melbourne. We were kind of breaking up, but then she ended up moving down and so the relationship went on and then I like went to Canada to study and we sort of stayed together despite that. Um, and then I came back and was like, I've actually got to go for another year because the program was so amazing. And we were like still together and it's like, you know, I feel like we're flogging a dead horse here. Um, uh, like, and anyway, we broke, we broke up not long after I went back for the second year. And it wasn't until then that I wrote my first song.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 27:19
Um, which kind of, you know, I, one of the questions I have is, do you have to have Do you have to have angst? Do you have to have struggle? Do you have to have personal challenges to be a good songwriter? We certainly sort of think of artists as having a unique perspective and almost a tortured perspective on the world. Are you better off having broken up than together in a comfortable relationship? Right?
John Milham (Host) · 27:50
So, I mean, for, Personally, for a long time, uh, I could only write one or two songs a year, and it would, it would have to be either a particular point of angst or a particular point of elation for some reason. Like, that was it, you know, either end of the spectrum you could write. Um, and that was it. That was all I wrote. The beauty of it is like, you know, it's gone from this whole like Oh, I have to have this deep, either deeply traumatic experience or something has to be going really well in order for me to create a song. To like, we can create a song off a simple idea, like, oh, or, you know, what's a feeling that exists in the world? What, you know, uh, or just, you know, people I think a lot of us will sit there with little notes in our phone and they're like, you'll get one lyric idea and you just jot that in and then that becomes the basis of a whole, a whole co-write. So, I mean, personally, I love that, that freedom to create more has been opened up to me. Because, you know, it was really frustrating when all I could write was It was in those circumstances.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 29:13
I could imagine it's like sticking a needle in to get an output out.
John Milham (Host) · 29:17
So yeah.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 29:18
Hey, um, what do you think? Is it, um, if you have talent, you know, if you can do what you can do, is it, is fame a part of it? Is that something you need or want, or is that a measure of success?
John Milham (Host) · 29:33
I don't necessarily want fame, but I need a critical mass of people to know who I am and to care about me enough to financially contribute to, to buy me cake and wine.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 29:47
So there's a practical element to fame, right?
John Milham (Host) · 29:51
There's a practical element to fame. And I think, I think like, you know, we probably have to be somewhat narcissistic in order to, in order to be like, get up on stage in the first place and say, hey, look at me. Um, uh, you know, uh, I don't know if narcissism is probably not the word that I want to use because I've got some experience with some toxically narcissistic people, and, uh, I, I don't want to assign that to, uh, artists in general. But, uh, you know, I think there has to be some, you know, No matter how hard you can try not to, um, seek external validation. I think everybody's done that. I think everybody, you know, a lot of people do it in some way. I do think it's, it's a particularly, uh, bigger thing for those with ADHD. It's, it's, um, something that we have to work harder to to not do than your average Joe. But yeah, I mean, I'm way more interested in the practical elements of, yeah, I think fame to the degree that you see it as a thing is that like can be more problematic than it can be practical in a lot of ways. Um, but I do think that, you know, I know, I know that there are people out there who will connect with me and my story and will like my music. Um, and it's at the moment, I'm just like in that process of trying to find the ways to find them through the algorithms, really. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully some clips from this will do exactly that.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 32:01
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope so too, because I think, uh, you've got, um, a voice and the voice is, uh, you know, has, uh, value out there. I think you're one of the, the people who are saying something that we need to hear. So it's interesting because when you, um, when you think about it and you say, you know, a practical side of fame or whatever. But what would you like your— you know, what would you like to have happen, right? You know, now, what it— what's it— would you like more songs? Would you like, you know, more power? Like songs to have more impact? Would you like a whole, um, you know, playlist happening at the time? Would you like a famous album? What, what, what would you love to have happened?
John Milham (Host) · 32:46
Um, what my goal really is, is to, uh, a, you know, to have a community of people who, uh, probably there's probably a few spheres to it. There's like, there's a community of people who, you know, will come to a gig or whatever, uh, or listen to a track on Spotify. That's great. You know, within that you've got people who will follow me more closely on social media. Within that you've got, uh, you know, and maybe they'll buy merch or whatever, um, you know, once in a while, or we'll pay for a song or an album instead of just streaming it on Spotify. And then within that there's, you know, there's this— what I love in the way that the industry, not only the music industry, but, you know, it's, it's across any kind of like public platform, um, that social media has kind of created this opportunity for people to engage more deeply. Um, and then, you know, through things like Patreon or other subscription services, you're, you, you know, in this, in the same way that the difference between someone coming, listening to you on Spotify or coming to a live gig, they get a more personal experience with you and you share things with them that the Spotify person doesn't get, um, that people are sort of creating these communities of, of bands or followers, um, where, you know, there's a lot more personal interaction between them. You, you're, you're doing special pieces of content or online hangouts with them that other people don't get. And, um, Ultimately, I want to be, you know, I want to be finding my people for that. Um, but yeah, I mean, really what I, what I want is just to be able to spend my entire life making music, making content, um, sharing it with people and having chats about all the reasons we do all those things. Um, and you know, I, I sort of sat down and wrote out a bit of what, what the dream life is. And, um, having opportunities like this to just, you know, half the time when I do something like this, I'm figuring, I'm figuring out my life as I, as we talk through it. And, um, I think that that's an okay way to be. I think, I think we have this, um, this concept that everybody has their shit together and knows what they're doing, and they're all just figuring it out. Like, um, Totally. And you know, when you're a kid and you look at adults and you're like, oh yeah, they are an authority because they understand everything and they know what's going on. It's like, yeah, they've got a bit more understanding, but if little me could know how much I'm just getting by on the fly as adult me, he would be shocked and appalled. Um, that's where, you know, it's what we're all doing. Um, but yeah, I think, um, that's, that's the answer. I just want, I just, I want to be able to find my tribes, find the tribe that's, uh, you know, about $5 a month to spare. Uh, enough of those people that, that can pay my bills so I can keep making music.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 36:20
Yeah. You know, you, you, you share your music, uh, you know, you invite us to join you on that process and support you.
John Milham (Host) · 36:29
Well, you know, it's a hard, hard gig, right?
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 36:32
But you've, you know, navigated, you've navigated your challenges, your mental health challenges, you're, you're working with people, you're creating some, um, some, some good in that others can connect to, a bit of a legacy in that space. Uh, your family, you know, What would you like us to know about the whole, you know, Ben Drysdale songwriter, singer?
John Milham (Host) · 36:53
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess part of it is figuring out that it's not just the Ben Drysdale songwriter, singer, it's the Ben Drysdale songwriter, singer, the Ben Drysdale dad, the Ben Drysdale ADHDer, the Ben Dry, you know, um, That it's all of those things and that, uh, there's a lot of fun to be had, uh, and there's a lot of healing to be done. Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 37:26
And shared.
John Milham (Host) · 37:27
Um, and that we can all help each other do that.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 37:33
Um, I haven't, I have a feeling that, that would, there's, you know, some pretty cool lyrics in a lot of fun to be had and a lot of healing to be shared, man. So, yeah.
John Milham (Host) · 37:42
Yeah, I'll write that down. Um, yeah, I'm not sure what I'm going to use it for yet. I've thought about whether it's a podcast idea or maybe the name of a community that people sign up to or something, but Squirrel Brains and Growing Pains is the one.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 38:07
Oh, wow.
John Milham (Host) · 38:08
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's an album title, or maybe it's all—
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 38:11
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, maybe, maybe, uh, um, people on the podcast who listen to it could reach out with ideas about what you do with Squirrel Brains and Growing Pains. I love it.
John Milham (Host) · 38:25
Right, trademarked, uh, don't steal it, anyone. Um, yeah, yeah, it's actually not any of those things, but please don't steal it anyway.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 38:33
Good call.
John Milham (Host) · 38:33
I should have said that.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 38:37
Mate, I don't know about you, but I've enjoyed being a participant in exploring some of your creative and life wisdom, right? And I think I hear that wisdom in your songs and I really connected with it. I'm looking forward to seeing lots more and, and watching, uh, that Patreon sort of double, triple, and maybe even get to 50 one day.
John Milham (Host) · 39:09
Imagine, that'd be great. Um, no, look, I really appreciate you having me on here, and, uh, you know, your, your, your questions have led me in different ways from other interviews. Sometimes, you know, when you're doing a bunch of radio interviews around a release or whatever, you find yourself just kind of saying the same thing over and over again, and I, I appreciate how Um, while we've covered some similar ground to other stuff, we've had different and deeper conversations in some ways. And, um, you know, part of that's on you. So thank, thank you for that.
Ben Drysdale (Guest) · 39:41
And, uh, well, thank you. And then, um, I think deep is your best place, mate. So look, may you be deep and, um, and keep producing those wonderful, uh, songs, mate. Thank you very much for being with Kintsugi Heroes today.
John Milham (Host) · 39:55
Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kintsugi Heroes. Thank you to Colin Lilly for permission to use Broken as our theme music for this series. If you enjoyed this conversation, share the podcast with a friend and let us know by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to support Kintsugi Heroes and the stories we share, head to kintsugiheroes.com.au and follow the instructions to make a tax-deductible donation. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
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