Kinugi Heroes brings you the following River Murray flood recovery story jointly funded by the Commonwealth and South Australian governments under the disaster recovery funding arrangements. To find out more about this podcast, head to kugiheroes.com.au. The 2022 River Murray floods in South Australia were caused by record water inflows from the Murray Darling Basin due to heavy upstream rainfall. The slowly rising flood waters inundated homes, businesses, and farmland causing widespread displacement, infrastructure damage, and agricultural losses. The disaster significantly impacted local economies, communities, and led to the region's long-term recovery. In this special limited series of Kinsuki heroes, John Milum sits down with members of the Riverlands community and gives them space to share their experiences of their personal adversity and community resilience. It's only through connection and empathy that there can be a path to recovery. In this episode of River Murray Recovery Stories, John Milum talks to Anthony Winter and Brenton Jinx. Anthony and Brenton are two local tradies highly experienced in working for the South Australian Department of Corrections, who led prisoner work crews during the 2022 River Murray floods. As community service coordinators, Anthony and Brenton trained and supervised prisoners as they took on vital jobs like building levies, setting up flood defenses, and helping local groups recover. Their story is about practical leadership, teamwork, and the difference that can be made in tough times, both for the community and for the men gaining new skills and confidence. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another uh recording, another chat around the uh River Murray uh flood project. Uh conversations uh that capture stories from the 2022 flood event that was so significant in that uh in the region. And today an interesting and kind of uh tangential chat with with guys from um DCS in South Australian government. Right. So we've got Anthony and Brenton. That's Anthony Winter and Brentton Jinx. And um guys, welcome to Kugi Heroes, the uh the River Murray Flood Project. Thanks for having us. Thank you. And it's fabulous to to um really appreciate the the hoops you had to jump through to get onto this program, right? And I I I imagine hoops are your middle name, right, with you working with projects in the correctional sphere itself. Yeah, because a lot of things aren't just straight up. So, and yeah, we've got to work through a lot lot of different things before we do a lot of the jobs we come up with. So we get approached by anybody and the flood recovery was the same sort of thing and yeah. So how did they you know the government you know was involved up to its teeth of course in responding to what is a you know was a pretty big civil project in the end you know with levies and you know mitigation and so on. Uh how did you guys get tagged? Did someone come to you or did you have the bright, you know, the bright bright idea, the sort of energy to go, oh, we can help out? We were approached originally through to DCS through there was a lot of government departments involved at the time and there was a lot of subcontractors. So, McMahon services were one of them. Although one subcontractors, but there was lots of different groups involved. So our first meeting with some of them was down at Manom for that was for the recovery but a lot of it was just local. Can you give us a ham of this? And SCS, a lot of it was SCES with beforehand with all the um defense cells and stuff. And that at Cadell here, we've got our own um uh CFS um gang here. And so they were involved, which is also other officers take out the prisoners out. So we sort of we were involved with them and we kept going out and we took our own our gangs as well. So it made quite a quite a big gang of guys going out and that was setting up defense cells which were a new a new thing that no one seemed to know too much about and that took a bit of uh organizing and that that's what I was saying about both us being trades. You're sort of problem solving all the time. So yeah, it was left up to up to us to work it out sometimes. Yeah, they were blown away with what we did. But when we first started at Balmer, we had to put these defense seals up and SCS they were running the show as such and we were there for probably a week or so and I was blown away with what the boys, the CFS boys and their boys were getting done. I said it without us it wouldn't happen. Absolutely. that and you know nothing but you know you know stories with praise and and and gratitude that came back from it. But uh you mentioned you know the project and so on. Perhaps we should sort of you know give it some context. First of all um you guys as tradies right? So, how did you get end up in um in the world of DCS where like you know normally tradies are sort of you know you know fitting um fitting plugs and you know you know sort of you know clearing out termite damage or whatever right cuz we're both locals like we live half an hour away from Cadell like where I used to work as a builder we used to do a lot of maintenance work here so we got to know the maintenance bloke that worked here and they applied for these community positions. So I applied for the first one and got it and then they decided 6 months later that was working well and they wanted another one. So Butch and I both been local trades and both pretty pretty fussy with what the way we do things. We both got a job and we both worked really well together. Did you personally right I imagine you know being locals and so on. Did you feel connected to the to the population of the of the group? Like was this something that you felt was both a job and a you know a service type? Well, it is because a lot like I said the people we work for are nonfor-profit organizations. So there are a lot of a lot of people and especially in the country that don't have that much money to do jobs. So all they've got to do is just provide us with um just whatever materials um are needed for the job. And yeah, and because like R said, we're we're locals, you you've got a bit of pride in uh the area to start with as well. Yeah. Yeah. The um so the program itself, is this something unique to this area or is it a program that goes through other correctional facilities? We're probably a bit unique in such like there's some of the other prisons like mobile they've done they had a community work going but they actually charge for their service. They do a lot of work for the local Midmar council but they actually and they do a lot of the park so they actually charge to go and do all these jobs where like Anthony said up here no one's got the money to do that. They tried to get us to do that quite a few years ago and they said it won't it won't work because no one up none of the sporting clubs have got money so it's got to be a free labor thing which is good that it sounds amazing. Tell me about the guys on the on the in the program. Are they, you know, are they long time in or are they, you know, guys from the area themselves or, you know, have they, you know, got training or is this their first experience in sort of getting into these projects? Um, a lot of them haven't got any training. Some don't have any sort of background on uh work stuff. Um, so that's up to Bren and I to actually train them in doing that. And some of it can be as basic as a lawn mower. Some have never used a lawn mower in their life. Um whipper snippers and that sort of thing because we do a lot of cleanups and that. Um so yeah and every soft we do get what we call a tradey come through and it's quite helpful whether whether the trade is relevant. Being a trady they tend to have a a a broad broad knowledge of everything. So yeah that helps out. And uh yeah, some are some are long-termers. Um but to get them onto our gang sort of thing, they have to go through a um a process that goes right through to head office. Has to be approved from there. Um so there's something like 200 prisoners here. We've only got 10 that are cleared to come out with us at the moment. So yeah, it's it's yeah, it's not a matter of just going picking anybody out. They have to be here for a decent amount of time because it's not worth the process. Yeah. Yeah. And of So I I I think it would be amazing. It's like wonderful to have that service offered to the community. Does it also do the guys the the 10 guys on your gang, do they actually feel different? You know, do does it have an impact on them? Yeah, a lot of them, most of the ones on the gangs want to be on the gang to get out to get out of the prison A and B to to give back to the community. Especially when we're doing jobs like we're doing a big paving job or building a pagola. At the end of the day, we we teach them a lot of skills and the end of the day they actually see something that they've done or take a lot of pride in that and yeah stuff. So yeah, it is it is very rewarding for the mans when when you do decent projects. I I can imagine that's that's extraordinary. Do you track that? Is that is this something do you feel like this is an opportunity what you do could roll out or be a model for for other other communities and other facilities? I I think down the track the we've just spent uh a few months down Adelaide doing some work down there for DCS and now I think they're looking at rolling out another section like us because at the moment Brendan and I are the only the only ones in DCS that are actually classed as uh community service coordinators. All the other guys that take them out for parks and wildlife are just officers that have sort of switched over into that, but they don't have to have any trade background or anything like that. So, I think they're looking at doing one down Adelaide cuz what we did was about 3 months down there. Uh, a lot of building work and stuff like that and saved the department a lot of money. So, I think yeah, they they were looking at trying to get another one set up down Adelo. It um it uh it sounds brilliant. I'm I'm but I'm aware right you know that you know it it's a it's a kind of tricky line to walk right between you know personal freedom you know rights you know exploitation community service right you know that must get complicated it can when we first started because it never really happened you there used to be a volunteer before air time that has worked remotely So when we first started a lot of the locals were very skeptical about having the prisoners working around then. But within 6 months like it was just complete turnar around like people being a small country town everyone talked about what we were doing and everyone changed their tune dramatically, didn't they? Yeah. on it and like us both being locals made it a lot easier for people to trust because we'd all in our jobs we probably already work for a lot of these people anyway. So a lot of times we if people can't be at the premises where we need to go they'll just give us a key or tell a key up and that sort of thing which I'm sure if we weren't locals and they didn't know us it wouldn't be quite that easy but that's why it sort of yeah made a lot better for us. That's a vote of confidence from the community, isn't it? You know, like and just in being invited in. So, which Yeah, because we're both I said tradies. Um been in the trades for probably 30 odd years are both local. So, there's not many people we don't know or haven't worked for sort of. Yeah. And of course, you know, being a part of community, you probably play on the footy team and stuff like that. Yeah. All that sort of stuff. Yeah, the um I I I I love the idea. It one of the um things I picked up touring down there. I I it seems like a tough place to be. It gets really hot, gets dry, and then the river, you know, it's beautiful on the river, but the river can play its games as well, you know, on is it tough as on physically when you're working outside and you know, well, it is like some of the jobs like when we were remote like putting up those defense cells, that was hard hard work. It was hot, but it was just you just got into it, had to do it. Um the SCES were always there. So they were always supplying our food, water, water and all that sort of thing. Um and yeah, it was just but the boys were actually worked really well and all they wanted to do is just get into it and get the job done and uh yeah, it was pretty pretty successful in like we did at Balmer which is like Nappa's Bridge which cuts off and then we did the Lockxton Caravan Park too with the defense. So that Yeah. And it was actually interesting for us to do it because none of us had ever seen the the fence cells and then trying to stack them too high was quite quite a challenge. I I I I'm fascinated now, right, hearing all about the cells, right? So, and and cuz I've just seen, you know, they've been setting them up uh they set them up in um there's some flooding up north in in South Australia now and they were using, you know, the the towns have been, you know, protected by the cells again. So, you know, you guys would be experts now, right? A rich skill, right? Cuz I don't think the, you know, natural disasters are going to stop in a hurry. So, no. No. And that that's sort of part of our job also is in when it is natural disasters we actually have to go out or don't have to but DCS do uh put our name out there to go and help like few years ago the pioneer fire went through the parasa area and so we we went down there after the the fact and went out for probably 3 months cleaning fence lines and stuff like that off. So the because the farmers just had that much to do and all their fences were down so their stock was going everywhere. Yeah. Wow. We went through cutting up the trees that had fallen over clearing their fence lines and then Yeah. then they had other uh mobs come through doing fencing for them and stuff like that. So yeah, anytime there's a natural disaster, they sort of if we can, we try and help out. It's it I I love the the idea both from a you know dignity point of view, right? because you the idea of valuing the work that these men do um it because you know it's so valuable and you know the idea you know and that it can be driven by community-led resources like yourself right is just it makes a lot of sense but you know logistically everyone's going to come up with some idea why it wouldn't work I guess yeah and like prisons don't have a good reputation generally but us getting out doing these sort jobs puts Yeah. puts it back into the community and the community see what we do and it's quite quite rewarding for us and the guys on our gang as well because yeah they it it looks good for them for their uh home D applications and stuff like that cuz they're back out in the community. They've been cuz it's we're supervising them all the time but some stuff they actually have to do think about it and do it themselves as well. So yeah, sort of teaches them a bit more uh probably their work ethics is a big thing because that defense cell stuff that was we were doing that day after day after day. So that sort of taught them that you've just got to keep going until the job's finished. Yeah. So so much. Um, you know, I, you know, I could probably learn from those guys now that like, you know, cuz that that's, I love that idea of, you know, confidence and worth is in each achievement that we have, right? So, these guys are perhaps getting that kind of reinforcement, that positive reinforcement for the first time, you know, in some of their in in their situations. Yeah. And we get a lot of them at the end of when they leave get out of Cadel they they actually thank us for what the skills we've taught them whether it's painting building wall frames or tiling or whatever we're doing but a lot of them will go home and use that on their own house and said they never would be able to do that before. So cuz cuzel is a low security prison so we're a bit lucky in that way. So Cadell, a lot of Cadell is about training and courses and all that sort of thing. So with what we do, sort of helps in that side of it. So they can get chainsaw tickets, car license, truck licenses like C 3s and different things here. So it's more of a training prison than just a high security prison. Yeah, I love that. um you know and those skills um what what especially intrigued me did you know this kind of experience over their time there it it seems to me to be commercial is that something that like they could go into a council gang or a landscaper or something. Is that the case? Yeah, definitely. Because a lot of the skills that we teach them are just general basic uh lawnmowers, whippers snippers and that sort of thing. But like Brandon said, they also get uh skid steer, forklift, which forklift, especially in the country and stuff like that, big factories, they're always needing that sort of thing. I've got their ticket, that gives them a a good start on it anyway. I love that. Yeah. How did you guys, you know, like you you know, you grew up on the in the on the Riverlands, Marlands? Yep. Yep. Yeah. how I'm born and bred are in the Cadella area and yeah stayed here and love it because of the river. I a question I ask all the people I'm I'm talking to. What what's your particular thing with the river? What do you love to do? Fishing. Fishing, but I'm we're both into skiing as well, like water skiing. Um and just just generally river life, camping on the river and stuff as well. So yeah, I I I love the look in everyone's face when we talk about the river, right? You guys are you've got muddy water in your veins, right? I love it. There's and and and maybe that's why cuz it's, you know, as it can be a tough place to be, but you guys don't leave, right? You just hang in there and make a life of it, right? And that was a good thing about the floods. It's improve the health of the river. The the fish are so healthy now. It's was a wonderful thing that come out of the floods. It's a it's an amazing um landscape. I had no idea, right? I'd been down the other end of the the Murray. This end is just spectacular. Does that like is that something you guys see, right? You know, like that connection with the countryside and the landscape and the Yeah, cuz Yeah. Being bought up here, we fished around here all our lives and then uh later in life we start going up up river a bit more in Victoria and New South Wales and it's it the funny part is you don't have the cliffs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Magnificent cliffs and stuff like that. And it's just Yeah. It's a different river system down here to what's up there. Absolutely. That was the the thing that hit me. This is different. It's spectacular. It's you know unique. Right. And so, yeah, no, amazing place. So, we get to the floods, you've got the the gang, and of course, you're you're included in the emergency response plan. You you they give you these funny blocks to fill up and put together like giant macano, right? Um hard work. Yeah, it was. It was hard work. And like because we had no one to actually show us how these things went together, the instructions weren't that great. Um, but it took a few days and not pro and that's the problem solving that you get and being a tradey you're always problem solving. So yeah, that that helped us out big time. So the the weird thing it must have been weird to to know that a flood's coming. Yeah, you just never know how big it is though. Like yeah, we don't get as many floods now cuz they can manage the water a lot better with the locks and that sort of thing. But um yeah, so they they have a bit of an estimate of what the water's coming down, how much and that, but it's still really a big guess as well because then if it starts raining up top as well and all and you get a lot more um and they're still tipping that there could be another flood bigger than this one coming soon. Yeah, I think the I think the the the the old-timers love to say that was only the you know the start of things, right? The next one will be the big one. Yeah. A lot have been a lot of older people have kept records for a lot of years and Yeah. cuz around the 56 flood I'm pretty sure there was a drought prior to that. Yeah. Yeah. So now we're in the drought. So you know you can take into whatever you think but yeah their records do show it. So just looking at the, you know, being on the edge and and seeing the markers for the 56, that's that that that would freak me out, right? A lot of water. You just can't even like where cuz the boating got stopped on the river when the flood was right in. Um, and then you go back out after we go fishing and you're sitting in the tinies and you're looking up 4 and 1/2 m up the up the cliff up the tree and that was the water level and and like we both I've lived on the river all me life and uh it still blows me away how much water. So you can imagine people that aren't from the area that come up and you go see that mark up there that was where the flood got to and they go no surely it can't have been but yeah it's phenomenal amount of water was a major we were flying back near the end of the flood that year from Gladston we've been up there fishing for something different and we flew over the mar sort of the plane sort of followed through from Mjurro and seeing the river in flat was just mindb blown back water. It was just blew us away what we could actually see from the air. The different colors like you see where it would get really wide and then it would get narrow and it would change color and yeah, it was unbelievable to see it. The the the term river lands becomes real when you get that perspective. You know, you see the drone shots through the flood and it's like literally just this, you know, inland kind of sea version at times. And you can sort of see like when um when you look at where the cliffs and that go, not all cliffs are uh where the river is. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So you start to think, okay, so how many hundreds of years ago was this a whole inland waterway and it slowly got smaller and smaller because there's cliffs in the middle of nowhere. Um but yeah, and that's that's just us sort of being locals. you just look around you go how where what and but quite quite interesting the river and I I see you know people you know there's a grow there's growth there in some areas where you know new housing and you know new new facilities are going up quite close you know riverside right so it's certainly going to be interesting yeah I guess our biggest growth around here is the shacks yeah industries around in in the Riverland aren't going that well. Like everything's been bit of a downturn. Grapes haven't been worth that much or hardly even worth picking. So, and that's where a lot of our their money turnover is that and citrus. Um, so yeah, a lot of the big companies are only just hanging in there. But then you get the river system and that brings in millions of dollars with just the shack owners which yeah with the flood they got wiped out. Insurancees have to step in uh and now they're rebuilding. So yeah. Um what what do you what do you know you were involved in you know getting your gang there and you know respon working with the many people involved the different organizations and so on. Did you learn a lot about that sort of crisis management stuff? And we learned that there was a lot of different departments involved, but we didn't really know who was running. So, which it would be hard cuz there was people from New South Wales that were meant to be running it down here and it's it's a lot to for someone to try and organize whole thing. So, you got to you got to subcontract it out, I suppose. Yeah, that's what we probably struggled with the most was knowing who was in charge of this and we'd probably do it this way, but they want to do it that way. So, it's just the way it is, isn't it? Especially when you were doing something that was so important, but no one particularly knew how we're doing it, putting together the, you know, the levies and stuff. So well yeah they like the balmer one was defense cells one from a sort of a hillside built across this um road but then it went into nothing. Then the other crew had to build a levy bank which was made out of rocks and sand. So we were going well how's that done a intermingle without the water just cutting through there? But yeah it worked. So yeah, but that was with your private guys doing um levy banks and things like that. And yeah, like they they put in I think a balmer or something like about 14ks of levy bank would take over from where our defense cells were and our defense cells probably would have been 50 200 m. Yeah, probably 150 something like that meters long and too high. So yeah, it took a lot of building. And to build them, you you they come flat packed. So you actually fold them out and then uh a lot of red dirt's got to get dropped there cuz you got to fill them with sand. But as you fill them, you got to pack them into like compact into the bag cuz you can't have too many air gaps cuz if there's an air gap, that's where your water will go. And then and then on the uh water side once we'd had them built, we had to lay plastic under or sort of start down the bottom and then wrap them up over top. So when water come up against it, it actually had the plastic barrier to stop the water going through as well. Well, it sounds um painful, but was a lot of shoveling involved. A lot of it you couldn't load them cuz they were like 12,500 square these things. So it's a lot of sand in each one and a lot of them you couldn't put in with machines. A lot of it was in shovels. Wow. I'm glad. Yeah. No wonder you guys look fit. Um the um what what the community like 2,000 um residences like the homes at 2,000 homes were were were damaged or lost. um you know people displaced businesses you guys were you know the local area was out of action on the river for quite for you know months um and as you point out pointed out Butch it's you know it's in it's integral to everyone's livelihood so it's been a tough time how how do you see the the community responding to all of this you know I think they've all worked together very well a lot of very resilient a lot a lot of the trouble I think afterwards was the power. Like you couldn't have power cuz any power that run underground they they couldn't reuse it. So a lot of the holdups were getting power back to their shack. Some of the shacks were still in not neck but they had no power for like 18 odd months or didn't a long time. Yeah. Cuz you can't just go reinstate like um reinstate the power without having to know that everything is safe. So then you have and that they just couldn't get enough electricians in to disconnect stuff. They went through and just pulled out the fuses which stops stops it going in. But then to redo it, they need an electrician to come in, check everything out in the the house to make sure it's up to speed and if any water's gone through, everything needs to be pulled back out again. All new fuse boards. And it was just a massive effort by just the electricians to try and get power back on there. So yeah, some people still had their shacks, but there was no power and uh yeah, but what's the vibe of the place? You know, like you then everyone seems to be quite resilient. I was down at Manom having a a great sausage roll on the side and it seemed to be quite a quite a and then a you know a drink over over the road and you know there s you like it's a a lovely little country town on the river which is beautiful and you know you drive along and it's you know breathtaking in places um and people are going about their business and grabbing their lunch and stuff. Do you think um you know everyone's doing all right, right? Like it's not easy. Probably a lot of them are still struggling to get back on their feet as such. But I think a lot of the locals are still a bit skeptical about when we have the next one. A lot of the shacks are owned by people from Adelaide or wherever. They're just naive to the fact they just there was so many shacks the people didn't even go there and get their furniture or anything out that they just left too late. They couldn't get there. So people like that are just naive to the fact of the river whereas the locals over still got that in the back of their mind. I think yeah the small the smaller places like Morgan Cadell u probably their hardware stores because a lot of people from Adelaide come up. So the hardware stores here have got to try and accommodate uh just about everything. So the floods were on their turnover dropped dramatic. Like they didn't have anybody coming up because there was no reason to come up because you couldn't put a boat in on the water. Uh the sha they couldn't get to their shack. So they would like a lot of those small businesses and even like um boat shops and stuff like that. uh all your ski shops, everything like that would have got impacted through it because just nothing happened for 18 months. So that's a long time to not have any sort of turnover and income. It's amazing. Yeah. What what do you see for the program going forward? Right. While you're waiting for the next flood, what what are you into? Well, I we will get another flood. That's a definite. But just hopefully everybody can learn from this one, be a little bit smarter, uh, a little bit more efficient about doing some of the flood stuff and perhaps a little bit more, um, do it before the flood gets here. Like there's a lot of places that had levy banks built uh then straight away pulled them all down and you go well I'm not sure whether you'd be doing that. I think people that had them built to privately protect their place. They've left them there because it's cost them a lot of money to get it in. If the government stepped in and did it well that's probably yeah not so bad. But even a waker like we had one that went right across the whole riverfront. But of course, we've had to pull that one out because uh yeah, you still need life to go on and it's just the river. So, after your experience with the defense uh cells, um do you think technology is an option going forward? Yeah, you think someone will have to come up with some better ideas and easier ways to do it. But a lot of the problems were was getting access to where you were trying to put them. Like not every defense cell was out in the open where you can get an excavator or a backhoe or a skid steer in there. A lot of them you had limited access. So a lot of that be done by hand. So you can't really do Yeah. Yeah. So that side of it. One way we we talked about was if you somehow sort of had a a vac pump truck type thing that the sand is actually in the truck and rather than sucking it out, you actually blow it back in. So you've got a big hose that you just stand on top of the defense still and fill it up that like cuz that was the slowest part was getting sand into them. And uh yeah, cuz you had to have trucks come in, dump a heap of red sand somewhere, then you'd have a backhoe, go and pick it up, tip it in, and then we'd be packing in. Whereas if you had something that was actually pumping it in there, it would probably go in a lot better. You wouldn't have to Well, you wouldn't have to use any shovels then. So yeah, not sure how they would do that, but yeah, I can see the Butch sandvac solution. Tell me about how like, you know, a big job, months, hard work. How'd your um gang go like as as because I assume they're most of them are are fairly young, right? So, no, we can we can have anybody from your 20s up to your 50s and 60s. So, yeah. And a lot of time they just all get in and get stuck into it because it with our gang especially you sort of if what and we try and say to them like one in all in you don't no one sits back obviously if you've got an older person you might not make them do some of the jobs. Yeah. Don't make Yeah. Someone my age isn't going to run run down the No. And they they tend to get in and just get it done and work really well together. But that's that's sort of how Sam and I try and set it up too. That's the idea of running the gang. Sounds amazing, mate. So, how did a couple of tradies learn management and social work and counselor, you know, how to be a counselor and that's probably the hardest side of it cuz both being traders, you you're usually working with people that have got some skills. So the hardest and frustrating thing cuz we're both very fussy with the way we do things. We don't half do a job. If you do it, it's to a high standard. So if we're painting, like we painted the Wu footy club years ago. So you're trying to teach BS to paint that have never painted in their life. Do a decent job, not trying to cut in. And so you got to have a bit of patience and they they have to want to be able to learn too cuz not not everyone we get on the game wants to learn or has got a good work ethic. So it's like anywhere like not everyone has got that. So you got to try and instill that into them. Teach them those skills and they want to be able to do that in the first place. They don't want to do it but they're not going to they're not going to want to learn those skills. So, it is it's a bit of a balancing act, isn't it? It's very it is hard, but we sort of try and um earn they've got to earn our respect, but we've got to earn their respect as well. And that it it's a little bit different to being a prison guard in here as such because we take the guys out working. So, we we can't you you don't treat him as a mate, but you got there's that fine line, but you still got to you have a lot more um friendly banter type stuff while you're out there that wouldn't happen in a prison situation, but that way they they seem to get in and do a lot more. Uh we'll get in and work as well, which we don't have to. We're meant to be supervisors, but you you get bored and you just you get in there and help. and they see us working so they jump in but if if they don't well then they get told but they can do the whole job themselves if wanting the help and yeah that's how it sort of goes along and yeah it's quite it takes a bit of getting used to and then yeah just uh listening to them talking about their what's happened in their life and stuff like that sometimes it is a matter of just listening to them with their problems cuz they are locked up inside. They don't get to see their family the whole time. And that's one thing you sort of get to learn that yeah, we we we take it for granted. Go home every night. They don't uh they miss their kids' birthdays, they miss their partners' birthdays, they miss Christmases, stuff like that. So, you've got to work in they have highs and lows as well. And that's where we've got to try and pick that and also have a good enough relationship with them that they'll say to us, listen, I'm not going too well today. Can I have the day off? And you know, the guys that want to have the day off just to do nothing, but other guys need it and you go, "Yep, no, that's fine." So that's that's something that I think just over the years you you've learned like we've been in the job for about 16 years now. So So you tend to pick a lot of this stuff up as you go along. Always learn. Still learning. Yeah. Well, you everyone you're like that's perfect, right? That so there's a guy Simon Synynic. I don't know if you bumped into him, but he talks about servant leadership, right? So you you as leaders are also serving those guys, right? Do you feel like mentors sometimes? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There was um couple guys, well one guy it was only about a month ago he actually rang us up and uh well contacted the prison and asked to have our numbers and that which is fine and all he wanted to do is ring up and say thank you cuz he's got himself a job now doing shop fit outs and all that sort of thing. So yeah, you don't you don't get it very often, but you do get a few guys that uh yeah, get out of that criminal system type thing and get back into the workforce and make a goal of it. It's pretty impressive keeping the water at bay and you know and building a future for BS as the same time. So social workers. Yeah. What um what do you think you like as residents, as family members, as long-term as members of a community that you love and a ri that by a river that you love? What what do you hope for the future of the area? The the biggest thing at the moment, like which said before, there's everything is very tight at the moment. Grapes are worth nothing. Um citrus is starting to come back. Dryland farming is terrible. We've had two two almost three bad years like actually droughts on the land. So, and it's now looking like this year they were all hoping it was going to be a good year this year, but it's looking like it's going to be another downer. So, that takes a lot of money and morale community. So, we're probably going to be relied on even more doing more community work projects like local sort of stuff. And that's sort of what people have come to rely on now because there just is no money to do anything. So do you want to do you want the government to expand your you know add more um you know butch and brenton and you know ex yeah other gangs. I I think it's a good idea and like yeah the other the other prisons cuz you've got Port Augusta prison too. up that way. They could set up another one, but it uh it's not an easy thing to set up, I don't think. And you've got to get the right guys involved with it. And obviously, it it's a it's still an expense for DCS to cuz they got to go out. We got two vehicles, two trailers, two lots of tools, stuff like that, and plus our wages and that. And it's Yeah. They don't actually get anything back from the community other than the thanks which is still still good. And like Brent was saying, we're actually a training prison, right? That's what there's a lot of courses that go on here and that's why it happens cuz we're a low security prison. Well, you know, like the the the countryside, the landscape is beautiful and that's down to to you guys as well, right? You know, like you're maintaining the the level of a community. I think that's not insubstantial. It's you need to get the right not so much just prisoners but staff as well to run it. You need the right sort of person that that can deal with the public and organize the jobs and have a bit of idea about quoting cuz a lot of people ask us they want us to build a shelter or a goal or something. What do you think we're going to need? What do you think it might cost? say you got to have a lot of skills in different areas, not just taking boys out there to do some work. You need a lot of background goes into it before you even get there to organize it and help them what they might need for the project. So yeah, that's amazing. Um, of course the big questions are things like what's the best eating fish on that you're going to pull out of it. The river not much depends who you talk to. I don't I don't mind the call or yellow belly, whichever you want to call. Um you just need to know how to fill them, how to cook them, that's all. So yeah. Yeah, it's always down always down to the spicing, I reckon. Yeah, it's just Yeah, about getting rid of the fat out of them and stuff like that. But yeah, we do a lot of fishing over the York Cana as well. So when you got fresh whiting and squid in the freezer, what would you eat? really fish and and what would you like to you know you know do personally what are you guys looking forward to you know over the next sort of five years or so of retirement too young to retire too important right so uh no it's just long as the long as the community can keep going like we've said that it's very tough times at the moment let alone And with the the flood now it's in a drought um with China and the wine and all that. It's just yeah and the dryland farming because it's a drought. We're not getting any any money back from them and that it just goes right down the whole line. So it'd be nice to see a few good seasons everybody get back on top again. Um but that's that's part and par sort of country life too. So you're not going to have it good all the time. Yeah. Absolutely. like was like, you know, we did a similar project with a Hunter Valley um had floods in 22 as well. Um and uh similar similar style, resilience, tough tough folks, you know, making a living and they go, "Yeah, we can handle a a bad year, but it' be be nice to have a good one occasionally." Right. So yeah, cuz it puts a lot of a lot of pressure on people's when it's their livelihood they're dealing with and you can only take so many knockbacks before the bank decides that's it. You're you're out of here and you walk out. Some of them walk out with nothing. They got to leave their properties, their house, everything, and just go. And I'm not sure when you've got huge debt like that, how in your lifetime, how you ever going to work that off? Yeah. What what what what do you think the place needs? What what if we were to ask the community, Australia, the world for what uh the um the the Murray communities need? What what do you reckon that might be? Uh not really sure because probably our biggest uh asset is our tourism. So I think we need to probably promote tourism more because yeah if the the uh blockies and that aren't getting money or you know bad years at least we can rely on tourism to come in and bring the money into the region. So yeah. Yeah. So everyone needs to come and like me be surprised and delighted at the at that end of the river, right? Which is the what the eighth, you know, like the eighth biggest river system in the in the world. So it's amazing and the third longest navigable river. The amount of people we see like where we we don't always fish in the same spots. some off your Wakery or Holder or Morgan or Cadell and all the free camp spots like the amount of people you see there you talk to them when you're putting your boat in and they're just blown away with how beautiful it is like the river is yeah they're from all over Australia so yeah and I I just want to acknowledge right the work you guys did to protect so much of the of this you know community um was brilliant and the cleaner was brilliant too it's that is absolut Absolutely. The worst thing about floods that was the biggest problem with those defense cells is like we didn't have to clean them up because obviously they just come in and get wrecked because you can't get the dirt out of them because we've packed that tight and then over the the months if water's got in there it ends up just like concrete in there. Um but we did like down Manum we went down there helping Mcmah services pull out they pulled out everything with machinery but there's a lot of sandbagging that went in between buildings we had to go down and help them out doing that which was yeah a few weeks going down yeah and the manum back and it you know it looks amazing so you know the and it's still a and now it's a beautiful place to visit and it's you know it's still going so well done men look We enjoyed it and the boys enjoyed it. So, yeah. Um, yeah. Well, look, it's extraordinary story. Um, like I'm so um amazed and impressed you the program you guys have been involved with for so long, right? 16 years. It's just it's not like it's the work you do with the with the men involved as well as the community. That's awesome stuff. You know, it's amazing that we have uh the resources like you guys to respond to terrible um events like the floods and fires. But um good good on you. Thanks very much. On behalf of the community, I Australian community, I thank you guys and keep up the great work. No worries. We'll do. No worries. And it's been terrific to talk to you. Thanks, man. Brenton, awesome stuff. Cheers. Thank you for listening to this episode of Riverland Recovery Stories. If anything in this conversation has had a triggering effect, please seek support and reach out to someone who can help keep you safe. If you found this conversation interesting or helpful, please share it with your friends, family, and colleagues so we can help more people with their recovery from natural disasters. To find out more about Kinugi Heroes and our other projects, head to kugiheroes.com.au. AU. Thank you to our production team, Kinsuki Heroes volunteers, and most importantly, the Riverland community for sharing their lived experience. [Music]